Not Another Religious Debate...

[SoulBlazerFan]

Well, I know how much religious debates are hated on this site. I don't intend to start some flame war here, but I actually have two questions regarding certain aspects of the religious debate.

First off, I'm not one to question anothers belief system. That not my business. That said, I need to go into my sister for a second. She's a year younger than me. Recently, she broke up with her boyfriend of two years to try and go out with this other guy. Her thing is, this guy "says nice things to her."

She broke up with her boyfriend simply to go out with this new guy, who flaked on her right after. Now, she's joined his church, and is taking on a religious belief system. Now, my problem with this is she isn't doing it to find God- she's doing it to impress this guy. I'm not going to go into it much further than that, but, I dicussed this with my mother, also very religious, and she told me to go to church with my sister.

I told her I did not want to. I don't really belong to any organized religion anymore... I'm far too jaded by some of the crap out there. Instead, I follow the teachings of the Bible and Jesus Christ, without aligning myself specifically with any sort of religion.

Well, my mother wanted me to go with her, I told her I wouldn't, especially since my sister didn't get into religion for salvation, she did it to get some ass, to put it bluntly. My mother argued that another person she knew joined religion for a woman- and ended up staying in it and becoming a very Godly person.

That's fine and all... but not for me. I can't respect someone that would join a religion simply to impress someone else. That's not a Godly person- that's a deceitful person. If she does end up finding God at the end of the tunnel, good for her. But I can't respect my sister for her reasoning of finding religion- she's only in it for the guy.

So, you can go from there and discuss that. Now, for part two:

I've been thinking about something alot lately, and it's been bugging me. I remember reading somewhere about the fact that Jesus doesn't actually look like the images we've been shown over the last few centuries. In fact, his anglo-saxon image is based on renissance art, which turned him into a "white guy" based on the now infamous Shrod of Torin.

For those of you unfamiliar, the Shroud is believed to be the buried cloth of Jesus- the image of a man was perminately "burned" into the cloth. It has long been subject of debate by scholars as to the validity of the Shroud, but I will leave that discussion for another day.

Back on track, so Jesus more than likely didn't look anything like our modern image of him- as a matter of fact, he probably would've had much darker skin, like the people who live in that area today.

That said, since any person of a Christian religion believes Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior, and when the prey to him, they prey to this believed image of him- would this be constituted as praying to an "idol?" Since when people picture Jesus they see that famous image of a brown haired, blue-eyed savior, would this be breaking the commandment, "Thou shall not believe in false idols?"

That last one doesn't seem to be as well thought out as it could've been- my apologies, low on sleep, had to hurry before work to get this done.

So dicuss, let me know what you think.

[Freedan]

In the case of your second point, I don't think so. I've always thought of the 'false idols' thing to mean someone who wrongfully claims to be a messiah, or something similar.

Considering where he lived, Jesus was most likely Middle-Eastern, or possibly black, and you're right that our own culture turned him in to the white man we see in pictures now. But it's still Jesus, and all of his morals and teachings are very much intact.

As for the first point... it is the wrong reason to base your beliefs on. But if she does happen to honestly get something rewarding out of it (spiritually), then that will be the important thing. If she ditches it shortly, then she's fair game for smartass comments.

[Jason Tandro]

Regarding your first point, and meaning no offense to your sister, this seems not only offensive and hypocritical but it's downright stupid. It shows that she is not thinking with her brains and is, in fact, doing her boyfriend a disservice by making a mockery of his religion.

HOWEVER, sometimes people change. The basis for a person joining a religion do not necessarily remain so. For instance, my father when he was a little bit younger than I am now picked up a Book of Mormon with the absolute intent in his good little Lutheran mind to tear it apart and discredit it. And a few days later he was converted. He's been a member ever since and I don't think anybody can argue that his faith is not genuine at this point.

Maybe your sister may change her mind and find that the tenets of the faith themselves are something that she wants to live by. Either way it is not our place to judge somebody else's religious motivation.

Except when they're doing this kinda crap.

(Just kidding)

Regarding point two and the worshipping of false idols.

From Exodus:

Code:

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 3 Do not have any other gods before me. 4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

As it says here, the issue is not the worshiping of the idol, but what the idol represents.

Treating an object that is representative of God or Jesus with respect is exactly what we are supposed to do. So Jesus may not have been exactly as we see him now. Anthropologically speaking of course he wouldn't. But we are not praying to Jim-Bob the Son of God. We are still praying Jesus and using that image as an approximation of what he is.

We celebrate Christmas on December 25, and yet most religious scholars have concurred that he was actually born around April. It is not the exact word of the law that we are meant to follow, but the spirit. Some fundamentalists (and fundamatheists who use scripture against us) should learn that.

[psychokind]

I think everything was said here...

I only might add to the first point: be glad he didn't actually convert her into his belief, and she's only doing it for him. once they quit, she'll quit the church again.

[SoulBlazerFan]

Well, she said (Today) she hasn't been to church in three weeks. Mind you, one Sunday it snowed, the next she was sick, and then snow again this past weekend. That said, my brother brought up the idea of looking for a millionaire to marry. She really liked the idea. I told her that it is the most unGodly thing a person can do. She just smiled.

She straight up said she was just looking to settle down and start a family. She was supposed to give up smoking and drinking too, but lo and behold, only a few weeks and shes back at both- even though my dad has cancer from smoking for almost thirty years.

[Jason Tandro]

SoulBlazerFan wrote:

Well, she said (Today) she hasn't been to church in three weeks. Mind you, one Sunday it snowed, the next she was sick, and then snow again this past weekend. That said, my brother brought up the idea of looking for a millionaire to marry. She really liked the idea. I told her that it is the most unGodly thing a person can do. She just smiled. She straight up said she was just looking to settle down and start a family. She was supposed to give up smoking and drinking too, but lo and behold, only a few weeks and shes back at both- even though my dad has cancer from smoking for almost thirty years.

Reality is gonna bite her in the ass one of these days. Kinda reminds me of some people I know...

[SoulBlazerFan]

Jason Tandro wrote:

SoulBlazerFan wrote: Well, she said (Today) she hasn't been to church in three weeks. Mind you, one Sunday it snowed, the next she was sick, and then snow again this past weekend. That said, my brother brought up the idea of looking for a millionaire to marry. She really liked the idea. I told her that it is the most unGodly thing a person can do. She just smiled. She straight up said she was just looking to settle down and start a family. She was supposed to give up smoking and drinking too, but lo and behold, only a few weeks and shes back at both- even though my dad has cancer from smoking for almost thirty years. Reality is gonna bite her in the ass one of these days. Kinda reminds me of some people I know...

Reality already has bitten her in the ass. She's had her car repo-ed. She got it back and, the brilliant, the silly brain she is, didn't bother to get her oil changed in a couple thousand miles, and ruined the engine. (Mind you, of course, this car was on a lease and only a few years old)

She works at Pizza Hut as a waitress. I'm not kidding when I say the following is true- she works almost forty hours a week and takes home less than 600 a month. My younger sister, still in a school, maybe works 60 hours in two weeks and almost doubles that.

She did get a job with my sister- but did nothing but bitch and whine because it was "Too hard" and ended up quitting after only a WEEK. No offense to anyone here, but how hard is it to deal with people, ring up customers, and put out bedding and coffee makers? I've been doing that crap for almost seven years, and it does suck, but is it really worth it to be at a job that you like, where you're getting used up and paid shittily (Mind you, in the last decade she's probably worked there a total of three years, and never got a single raise- gotta love Pizza Hut) than be at a better paying job that kinda sucks?

I mean, how much can you honestly love being a waitress at a place that most of the customer base doesn't even bother tipping? I mean, really? Is it that much worth it? Would you rather have a job you love where you made diddily-squat (On the days she's a shift manager, which is maybe once a week if she's lucky, she barely breaks 9 an hour) or be in a job you're less than happy with, and be making alot more money?

[Jason Tandro]

You see the only reason to bring home that kind of money is if you're working a do-nothing job.

Not that I know anything about that... (cough cough Best Western).

And I still brought home $800 a month at that job. The current job I work my ass off. Some days I dread getting on that phone. But you know what? Including commission I'm now bringing home around $2400 a month.

You work for what you get. There are people who can get repeatedly beaten down by life and don't alter their course. In some cases it's depression, where they don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. In some cases it's arrogance or a sense of entitlement. Sometimes is a combination of the two. Laziness is, from what I can tell, not the biggest problem. Laziness is easier to correct than the other two.

[Fazermint]

This reminds me of some guy in the family of my girlfriend. He's joined some branch of Christianity that's rather weird. Every holiday is spent entirely with the church, leaving your family behind. He plays piano, but only in church, because God is the only on worthy of listening to his music. And he talks demeaning about other kinds of Christianity, as if only that branch is the good one. And of course, he has to pay an amount of money per month. Whoever invented this cult is using religion to make moneyz. Ah well, that's what Christianity was made for, anyway.

[Jason Tandro]

Fazermint wrote:

This reminds me of some guy in the family of my girlfriend. He's joined some branch of Christianity that's rather weird. Every holiday is spent entirely with the church, leaving your family behind. He plays piano, but only in church, because God is the only on worthy of listening to his music. And he talks demeaning about other kinds of Christianity, as if only that branch is the good one. And of course, he has to pay an amount of money per month. Whoever invented this cult is using religion to make moneyz. Ah well, that's what Christianity was made for, anyway.

Sounds kinda like the FLDS nutcases. Or maybe COBU... They make us Mormons look non-crazy.

[Freedan]

Any religion that requires you to pay money to belong isn't a religion. It's a cult for gullible people.

[tay120n64]

There is a difference between tithing and being required to relinquish your money. Though if his practices are that stringent, I doubt what he is doing would fall under the former.