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Freedan
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PostFreedan Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:50 am   Post subject: North Korea Reply with quote

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So, what to do with this rogue nation of loose cannons?

They've been popping up in the news with more frequency these days. Seems they're launching missiles and doing some nuclear work, in clear violation of the restrictions against them. They say they have the right to do as they please. With the U.S. and other allies tightening sanctions against N. Korea, they're getting a little... rabid.

North Korea threatens the U.S.

So, what to do here?

On one hand, North Korea is clearly itching for a fight. They want war, so should NATO give it to them? (There's no way N. Korea could fend off the U.S., let alone their allies too). They've been whipping up anti-American sentiment over there, repeatedly threaten other nations with nuclear attacks, and have been known to start screaming about nuclear weapons whenever they need money (other nations then give them a few billion dollars to shut them up and stop with the nuclear stuff, which they do for a few years until the money runs out).

On the other hand, N. Korea isn't much equipped for a fight. Their missile program is in the fledgling stages; they've just gotten the things to launch. They're a long way from reliably being able to attack anyone other than those directly around them (S. Korea, for example, which is under U.S. protection). They can't even reach the U.S. from there, so attacking them is out of the question. They're likely just posturing to get money or have the sanctions dropped.

So what does everyone think? Is force called for, or are they bluffing? Will the sanctions work and drain their money and resources, or will it just push them over the edge?

As much as I don't care for war, I think it's justified in this case. They've openly declared that they have weapons, and are making threats of nuclear attacks. They may not be capable of delivering on those threats now, but somewhere down the line (which, admittedly, may be a long way down the line), they probably will be. I don't think NATO should take the chance that they're bluffing.

North Korea is a bully, and bullies aren't interested in sitting down and talking out their problems. Bullies don't work that way; they work through threats and intimidation. And when a bully threatens you, you respond in the only way a bully can understand... you give him a bloody nose, maybe knock out a couple of teeth. Let them know they're not King Shit, and can't intimidate people in to giving them whatever they want.

Thoughts?
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tay120n64
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:26 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Well, I have a feeling it may just end up like Japan in the end. We may just have to shove nuclear power up their ass merely to show them why they shouldn't threaten to shove it up the asses of others. I'll agree, clearly they want a war, but they're biting off more than they can chew. They can't threaten the US, no matter how much they want to. They don't have the resources.

However, I do think that it is important to lead by example, so bombing N Korea might not be the brightest decision. Still, sometimes you're not left with many options...
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Jason Tandro
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:41 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Eek!

OMG. You actually read the World News section of UFO this week! Laughing

Yeah, this has been a hotspot of mine, considering my country is about to have a missile thrown at it and our President (who is steadily sliding down the slippery slope into inadequacy) seems to want nothing to do with it. He'd rather take photo ops at burger joints and speaking of joints, he thinks legalization of marijuana is more important than this.

Even my pot-smoking friend Joe says now is not the time to deal with that issue! Well tomorrow is judgement day. If North Korea does launch the missile, all I can hope is that our anti-air defenses kick in and we finally have an excuse to retaliate. One or two Tsar bombs on Pyongyang and Chang-li ought to do it.

Not that Obama will do it though... Mad
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Freedan
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PostFreedan Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:45 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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The U.S. is put in a tough position in this case.

N. Korea is clearly no match for them. And, the U.S. has taken flak before for going to war in recent years.

On the other hand, with Iraq, there was no clear evidence at the time that these weapons they were looking for even existed. In this case, N. Korea is happily declaring that they have weapons, and no qualms about using them.

If the U.S. gets proactive about this, global opinion of them might sink (and it's not exactly fantastic these days as it is). But if they wait, and N. Korea follows through on their threats to attack someone, will the U.S. be blamed for not intervening?
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PostFreedan Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:46 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Jason Tandro wrote:
Eek!

OMG. You actually read the World News section of UFO this week! Laughing


I've been following the news on this pretty much since they started appearing in the headlines. Very Happy
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tay120n64
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:55 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Freedan, the Dark Knight wrote:
If the U.S. gets proactive about this, global opinion of them might sink (and it's not exactly fantastic these days as it is). But if they wait, and N. Korea follows through on their threats to attack someone, will the U.S. be blamed for not intervening?


Ah, politics... Laughing
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Postinferiare Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:05 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Freedan, the Dark Knight wrote:
If the U.S. gets proactive about this, global opinion of them might sink (and it's not exactly fantastic these days as it is). But if they wait, and N. Korea follows through on their threats to attack someone, will the U.S. be blamed for not intervening?


Yes. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. First it'll be "OH MY GOD HOW DARE YOU ATTACK THEM! OUR OPINION OF YOUR COUNTRY HAS GONE DOWN!" but if the commies in North Korea attack us or some other country (re: South Korea) under our protection because we didn't do anything about them going "Ha ha, bitches, we have nukes!" we'll hear "OH MY GOD HOW DARE YOU NOT DO ANYTHING TO STOP THEM FROM NUKING THE SHIT OUT OF SOUTH KOREA YOU HORRIBLE NATION YOU! OUR OPINION OF YOUR NATION HAS GONE DOWN!"
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:29 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Well that's what I feel about the U.N. It's a damned disgrace. They tell us that we have no right to police the world, until some nasty terrorist or dictator drops a nuke on them and it's

"Oh shit! Save us America!"

and

"Why didn't you save us sooner?!"

I'm sorry, but while the concept was good when it started, f-u-c-k the United Nations. If I was President, the second our anti-air defenses started going off, North Korea would have about 48 more hours of being an independent nation before it became a smoldering furnace surrounded by a few spared civilian centers.

And people of other countries wonder why we have a chip on our shoulder. Mad
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Postpsychokind Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:16 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I don't know what you're talking about, attacking north korea is out of the question 'cause of china Wink nuke on Pyongyang = chinese nuke on washington...
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:25 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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psychokind wrote:
I don't know what you're talking about, attacking north korea is out of the question 'cause of china Wink nuke on Pyongyang = chinese nuke on washington...


Lol! Well we know all too well the hazards of allies *cough World War I cough* Laughing

But while I see your point I doubt China has the nads, or the ability to attack us now, at least militarily. Now if they call in US debt we're royally screwed, but they won't do that either because our economy's are so delicately entwined that causing ours to collapse from underneath us is a double-edged sword. I guess it's a good thing that we've spent beyond our means in a foreign market to the point that any sensible leader of any country is going to see the connection between killing the Fat Cat Corporate Asshole and watching his investments die with him.
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Postpsychokind Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:37 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Jason Tandro wrote:
psychokind wrote:
I don't know what you're talking about, attacking north korea is out of the question 'cause of china Wink nuke on Pyongyang = chinese nuke on washington...


Lol! Well we know all too well the hazards of allies *cough World War I cough* Laughing

But while I see your point I doubt China has the nads, or the ability to attack us now, at least militarily.


propably. but they got enough nukes, and that makes any armed forces futile. and, what's more important, they got economic power. you really can't just attack north korea like any arabic shithole.
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:29 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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You're mixing cause and effect again. We CAN nuke North Korea... we are perfectly capable of nuking North Korea... but if we do we are likely to get nuked in return. Laughing
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PostFreedan Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:38 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124353389041863413.html

China is N. Korea's ally, but they're not particularly happy with their missile launches. They would likely support modest action (that is, stronger sanctions) against them.

That's with N. Korea just test-launching the missiles. If they ever followed through and attacked someone, do you think China would support more radical action?
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:30 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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China has declared that they must be ready to win the inevitable war against the united states. Since the world is one great big appendage-waving contest, I highly question their motives. Actions speak louder than words... and I suppose in this case that argument can sort of go both ways.

Point is China may claim they are opposed while secretly wishing our demise.

I'll grant that's a somewhat weak argument, but the possibility exists.
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Postpsychokind Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:13 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Jason Tandro wrote:
China has declared that they must be ready to win the inevitable war against the united states. Since the world is one great big appendage-waving contest, I highly question their motives. Actions speak louder than words...


stop that Very Happy that's why the americans always mess up in every war; iraq, afghanistan, vietnam....

USA declares a lot more offending shit, and as long as nobody listens to it it's alright. so let china propagize their statements too Wink

of course china does not approve of kim jong-il's retarded bullshit, but they still are allies, and they still won't stand the sidelines in a war...

and of course china wishes our demise, did you ever concern with chinese culture? they are more cultural nazis then the germans ever were, they see the western folks as underlings living a regretful way of life. it's only natural they want our doom, nothing personal to be affected Very Happy
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