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Love for OoT... Not understandable.

 
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AlphaMan
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PostAlphaMan Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:51 pm   Post subject: Love for OoT... Not understandable. Reply with quote

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Hey.

So I've been a Zelda fan since the ALTTP/LA days. It wasn't till around 2000 when I had a chance to play through and complete Ocarina of Time.

I was young and very unimpressed. The game is obviously a hug rip-off of ALTTP and LA in every way. Not a single moment of the game is original (although some ideas were edited/expanded on such as Fishing from LA)... And in many cases, not fun or challenging.

The game's puzzles are arguably worse than even ALTTP's are, and the only reason they get praise is due to the Water Temple... Which is silly. The only reason everyone hates/loves the Water Temple is because they can't figure out how to look down after raising the water in one room to find a Key that they wouldn't need if they used a previous one on a correct door.

Of course, Zelda was never about puzzles (who here remembers pressing a button in a house in Zelda 2 and having Link say "I found a Mirror under the Table!"? Or pushing one block after all enemies were defeated in Zelda 1 several times?), but rather the Action RPG/Exploration elements.

Hyrule Field is a "wasteland of near extinction" (to quote the Star Fox 64's intro when talking about Venom). Unlike in ALTTP/LA where I can bomb walls, find hidden items (Bombos in ALTTP? Boomerang in LA?), I cannot seem to do anything important in OoT's main area except bomb holes in the ground (which is much less exciting than bombing a wall, but that one is just my opinion) and occasionally fight some monsters (which are all the same and boring due to OoT's strange 3d fighting system which makes no need for actual dodging, just holding out your shield and attacking).

And imo ALTTP pulled off the two worlds better by letting us actually use all items in both areas and not try to separate the worlds by terrible time travel. (If you can't guess, Adult Link was where OoT was ruined for me... The downhill point of the game, I suppose.)

Also, what was with Jabu Jabu's Belly? It was clearly just Catfish's Maw from LA with a different entrance (using a fish instead of swimming).

I'm expecting flames, but I just want to know what makes OoT so great to everyone. I can find only flaws and copycatting in it. I'd go on about this subject, but that isn't really fair without an initial response/defense.

Have fun.
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Freedan
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PostFreedan Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:40 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Fair enough points I suppose, but equally applicable to virtually any game; not only limited to the Zelda series.

To claim that OoT copies from past games, you'd need to make the same claim of past games. The Water Temple to Catfish's Maw, for example.... Catfish's Maw to the Ocean Palace from Zelda 2 (both accessed via water), or the Swamp Palace from LttP: both water themed. Yes, the game does borrow from past games in the series; virtually every game in the series does.

"The game is obviously a hug rip-off of ALTTP and LA in every way. Not a single moment of the game is original" - I think you'd be hard-pressed these days to find a Zelda game that is original. You tend to have your similarly-themed dungeons, similarly-themed items, fishing minigames, shooting galleries, forest/mountain/water/desert areas all connected by a hub.... to say nothing of the story.

The Zelda series has never really been known for innovation; more for evolution. Nonetheless, OoT did innovate (as far as the series is concerned) by being the first in 3D, and setting a pretty impressive standard for action-adventure. The targeting lock streamlined combat by letting you focus on an enemy, rather than open combat (though you were free to do so, though the camera wouldn't be much help). It's useful for fighting all but the most basic of enemies, and keeping track of those that take to the air.

But in the vast majority of cases, evolution has always been Zelda's strong suit. They take concepts from past games and refine them, making them more enjoyable than the first time we played them. The fishing minigame, for example; more advanced in OoT than it was in LA, which, in turn, was more advanced in Twilight Princess.

If a wide open field with not much to do is a problem, I find it odd that you would single out OoT rather than Majora's Mask (a wide open field with much less to do), or Twilight Princess (a field many times larger with nearly nothing to do); less excusable in those cases, because OoT was their first crack at a 3D hub.

Here's what OoT did for me:

It took elements of past games (fantastic in their own right), and refined them in to a single conglomeration of everything that had made the series great to that point. It massively expanded the backstory of Hyrule, and gave the main characters personality for the first time. It encouraged much more exploration (always a big plus with me) through sidequests like the gold Skulltulas and heart pieces. But what I enjoyed most was that it was one of those games that you didn't want to just play and beat; you (that is to say, I) didn't want to move on until you had experienced as much as you could.

OoT was to the Zelda series what Mario 64 was to the Mario series; a breakthrough for the series in to new territory that set the bar incredibly high for future games of the same genre. For its time, it was about as close to perfection as you could get.
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EverPhoenix
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:42 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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i'm another one who thought OoT was overrated. It didnt have as much to it, on first inspection.

Although it is rather awesome in the sense that its the first 3d zelda. gives it more of a realistic feel to it (as much as possible with dodgy polygons in a fantasy-ish adventure).

Personally i liked aLLttP a lot more, because of the 2 worlds and how you could go between the two. Also since its the first zelda i played.
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PostBlade Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:37 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Gotta stick to OoT here. First-3D-Zelda aside, it was not as mindblowing as some might think. I also think it took way too many elements from aLttP to stand out. ALttP is, was and always will be my favourite Zelda game.

But still, OoT had it's big feeling-moments. Majoras Mask, on the other hand, was a good "expension" to OoT, a sidequest, and that's where true innovation takes place.

I agree, OoT is overrated, but not unimpressive or "unbearable"
ALttP set the standards, and Majoras Mask and the Season/Ages game are teh innovation.
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tay120n64
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:37 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Wow, Freedan. It's like you left nothing for me to say.

Ok, I'm a hardcore Zelda fan. Have been since 1991 when I first played the NES Zelda. Honestly, I'm tired of people harping on about how amazing OoT is, but despite that, I can't disagree. OoT is the best game in the series for a reason, it took ALttP, one of the most amazing top-down Adventure games ever, and re-invented it. When this game came out, there was nothing else like it. The scale and scope of this game hadn't been seen before in gaming, perhaps with the exception of FFVII, and for alot of people, including me, it was fun just to run around and experience it.

Granted: Time has not been kind to OoT. The game does feel a tad dated, especially when put next to Majora's Mask, a game far superior in my opinion. But despite that, OoT remains fun and engaging. Though it may not be as hearty as, say, ALttP, it's still good in its own ways.

The reason it's so revered is because of what it did for the industry. Virtually every 3D Adventure game since 1998 has borrowed something from OoT's formula. And improved (most of the time). There were things they wanted to accomplish in OoT, and sadly a few good things about ALttP had to be sacrificed.

And as for the lack of originality, the games are all part of the same series. You rarely see that level of originality in these situations.
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psychokind
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Postpsychokind Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:51 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Quote:

It took elements of past games (fantastic in their own right), and refined them in to a single conglomeration of everything that had made the series great to that point. It massively expanded the backstory of Hyrule, and gave the main characters personality for the first time. It encouraged much more exploration (always a big plus with me) through sidequests like the gold Skulltulas and heart pieces. But what I enjoyed most was that it was one of those games that you didn't want to just play and beat; you (that is to say, I) didn't want to move on until you had experienced as much as you could.

OoT was to the Zelda series what Mario 64 was to the Mario series; a breakthrough for the series in to new territory that set the bar incredibly high for future games of the same genre. For its time, it was about as close to perfection as you could get.


I'd sign that!
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Postgavdaman88 Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:16 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Oot was hyped up too much, but I still think it's a great game. Looking at it from my point of view it is fun, original and was one of the first games I felt had a true 'world' you could go crazy in.

I mean come on who didn't try hitting chickens in kakariko from a mile away, or bombing yourself off death mountain or silly things like that! Definitely the first game that encouraged me to do stupid things like that, just because I was given the option to.
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PostMiss Prime Blue Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:56 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I'm not entirely sure that nintendo can "rip off" one of their own games, but whatever.

People like OOT because it was the first 3D zelda game, the adventure and the storyline.
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