Is morality objective, subjective or something else?

[Manibrandr System]

My entire philosophy is based on radical acceptance, having faith in others, and the idea that we're all connected.

[Jason Tandro]

psychokind wrote:

I think our differing points of view are a good reflection of the overall issue Jason put on the table.

The ultimate point of this thread is that I am smart to have asked the question.

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So my thought about all of the above is, quite simply: "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." I lean more towards Manidbrandr System's philosophy here when it comes to borders. Their idea of "radical acceptance" will come with some downsides, but I would argue no-more-so than having to deal with any other subsection of the human race.

You mentioned the "sea of rapists" being primarily young transient men... well maybe the problem isn't immigration but the values we are instilling young men with globally.

Of course to be fair that's where you might reasonably argue that borders and legal immigration help people naturally integrate into a new environment. And we would be remiss to pretend that all humans are basically the same when frankly even cultures within the same country can be wildly different.

I believe in moving towards a maximally free society over a maximally secure society and I do believe the two are nearly polar opposites. I believe there will be generations of growing pains in doing so. But I also am aware that ours is far from an idyllic society, and there is merit to these opposing views coming into conflict as we develop.

Now while I believe that Centrism for its own sake is moral cowardice, I believe the synthesis that can come about as a part of this natural social friction is beneficial to our growing understanding of one another. Compromise is a nice place to visit, but a lousy place to end up. Especially when it comes to human rights.

/ramble

[Flamez]

Jason Tandro wrote:

Now while I believe that Centrism for its own sake is moral cowardice, I believe the synthesis that can come about as a part of this natural social friction is beneficial to our growing understanding of one another. Compromise is a nice place to visit, but a lousy place to end up. Especially when it comes to human rights.

Completely disagree. The world is not black and white, so why should morality be? Sometimes either extreme is not the right answer, a lot of the time there isn't a right answer. Finding something in the middle can sometimes be the best answer, although not perfect.

"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good"

[Manibrandr System]

That philosophy only works if the propositions on either extremes have equal value. In this case I'd argue that the presence and enforcement of borders creates unnecessary division between people, and reinforces a lot of xenophobic ideals at best, and phrenological racism at worst.

[SoulBlazerFan]

I'm not sure morality matters at the end of it all.

Because to me, you can spend your entire life following the moral code only to have your life ended, or lose everything because of someone else's lack of morals.

I've seen religious people do horrible things in the name of God and their belief systems, all under the guise of some morality they only have in place due to a book they use as an excuse to say and do deplorable things.

Priests are still assaulting young boys in their parishes. It's gone on for decades now. Instead of directly dealing with it, they send them off somewhere else to do it again and again. It's quite horrifying.

Religion was supposed to be the morality tale of man, and yet people always twist it to benefit themselves.

You can chose your own moral guidelines, how to live your life, but you are free to the whims of society at large and the people with no morality whatsoever that could just one day come, rob and shoot you in the face for no reason. Or people around you looking to use you for their benefit.

I watch a YouTube true crime series, and how many times I've seen people kill their loved ones for life insurance money is just really sad. For some, profit over morals is reality.

A truly moral person treats everyone with an equal amount of respect and care. I've come to learn people don't care about respect in the slightest. Spend enough time in retail, you find people who lack any sort of moral code and look down on everyone who they find beneath them.

I find I've questioned why I bother to be kind and moral towards others, because at the end of it all I've found out that, most people use kindness as a benefit to their own end, and will take the first opportunity to screw you or leave you the moment you're no longer beneficial to their needs.

Maybe its a Jersey thing though. Most Jersians are rude, condescending and uncaring assholes in my experience. My family at times included.

I try to be as good a person I can be, do the right thing, but I question the point in all of it when those around you just don't care and use you to the point where your morality sinks and you're just in the muck with everyone else. Again, might come down to my own experience. I care a lot still, even when others around me don't.

[Manibrandr System]

This is part and parcel why we lean towards consequentialism and spit in Kant's face.