666

[Jason Tandro]

Simple debate topic: the number of the beast. Do you believe this number has inherent power, is it something that Satanic Lore uses to seem intimidating, do you think it's just an ordinary number?

[Freedan]

I can't be arsed to do it right now (maybe later), but isn't there some racket out there about how 666 isn't "correct", and the actual number of the beast is 616?

I could swear I remember hearing something about that.

Anyway, it's just a number. 666 isn't evil, 7 isn't lucky, and 13 isn't unlucky. Someone made it up some day, and it stuck.

[Jason Tandro]

And let's not forget 668: The Neighbor of the Beast.

---

Revelation 13:17-18 (King James Version)

"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Here it is in the original Greek:

"17 καὶ ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ. 18 ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ."


[Edit: For those who don't know, a 'score' is a unit of 20. Therefore threescore = 3*20 = 60. Ergo six hundred threescore and six = 666. Unless of course we are going by modern numerology in which case "AND" represents a decimal in which the actual number of the beast is 660.6 ]


Now the 616 belief, as Freedan pointed out stems thus:

"The early Church father Irenaeus knew several occurrences of the 616-variant but regarded them as a scribal error and affirmed that the number 666 stood "in all the most approved and ancient copies" and is attested by "those men who saw John face to face".[16]


In May 2005, it was reported that scholars at Oxford University using advanced imaging techniques[17] had been able to read previously illegible portions of the earliest known record of the Book of Revelation (a 1,700 year old papyrus), from the Oxyrhynchus site, Papyrus 115 or P115, dating one century after Irenaeus. The fragment gives the Number of the Beast as 616 (chi, iota, stigma), rather than the majority text 666 (chi, xi, stigma).[1] The other early witness Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus (C) has it written in full: hexakosiai deka hex (lit. six hundred sixteen).[18]

Significantly, P115 aligns with Codex Alexandrinus (A) and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus (C) which are generally regarded as providing the best testimony to Revelation. Thus, P115 has superior testimony to that of P47 which aligns with Codex Sinaiticus and together form the second-best witness to the Book of Revelation. This has led some scholars to conclude that 616 is the original number of the beast.[19][20]

Dr. Paul Lewes in his book, A Key to Christian Origins (1932) wrote:

"The figure 616 is given in one of the two best manuscripts, C (Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, Paris), by the Latin version of Tyconius (DCXVI, ed. Souter in the Journal of Theology, SE, April 1913), and by an ancient Armenian version (ed. Conybaere, 1907). Irenaeus knew about it [the 616 reading], but did not adopt it (Haer. v.30,3), Jerome adopted it (De Monogramm., ed. Dom G Morin in the Rev. Benedictine, 1903). It is probably original. The number 666 has been substituted for 616 either by analogy with 888, the [Greek] number of Jesus (Deissmann), or because it is a triangular number, the sum of the first 36 numbers (1+2+3+4+5+6...+36 = 666)".[21]

Professor David C. Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Paleography at the University of Birmingham, thinks that 616, although less memorable than 666, is the original.[22] Dr. Ellen Aitken said: “Scholars have argued for a long time over this, and it now seems that 616 was the original number of the beast. It's probably about 100 years before any other version.""

Gotta love Wikipedia!

[Freedan]

Jason Tandro wrote:

And let's not forget 668: The Neighbor of the Beast.

Don't forget the other unholy numbers.

0.666 = number of the millibeast.

$719.28 = number of the beast + tax.

25.806975 = square root of the beast.

6.66 x 10^2 = scientific notation of the beast.

333 = son of the beast.

666 = palindrome of the beast.

-666 = number of the anti-beast.

66666666666666666666 = number of the obsessive compulsive beast.

You could earn $666,666! = spam of the beast.


And all that other stuff you said... yeah, that's what I meant.

[EverPhoenix]

Freedan, the Dark Knight wrote:

Jason Tandro wrote: And let's not forget 668: The Neighbor of the Beast. Don't forget the other unholy numbers. 0.666 = number of the millibeast. $719.28 = number of the beast + tax. 25.806975 = square root of the beast. 6.66 x 10^2 = scientific notation of the beast. 333 = son of the beast. 666 = palindrome of the beast. -666 = number of the anti-beast. 66666666666666666666 = number of the obsessive compulsive beast. You could earn $666,666! = spam of the beast. And all that other stuff you said... yeah, that's what I meant.

.

also, i dont believe in that. its just a number.

[Mantaray]

you guys are so funny

666 is just a number the more i think of it... then again you never know for sure :p

[Yet One More Idiot]

Mega-LOL! You guys crack me up!

But no, I don't believe that 666 is evil, or that 7 is lucky or that 13 is unlucky (someone once told me that 16 is apparently my lucky number, though I've never gotten any luck from it; and my dad's lucky number is supposedly 13...)

Also...

£408.15 = the number of the British Beast (according to current exchange rates)
$479.58 = the number of the British Beast + VAT.

[psychokind]

13 is a lucky number, because I'm born on a friday 13th

[Jason Tandro]

psychokind wrote:

13 is a lucky number, because I'm born on a friday 13th

Damn! The only thing cooler than that is being born on February 29th... or Christmas.

That's my question. What was Jesus's birthday like? He only got one present and it was his birthday and christmas present... that sucks.

[Freedan]

The guy could do miracles. What do you get someone like that?

When a guy can cure blind people by smacking them in the face and turn 2 dozen pitchers of water in to a biblical Oktoberfest, it doesn't seem right to give the guy a sweater for his birthday.

[Jason Tandro]

I woulda bought him some Nikes. If he'd had better arch support maybe they wouldn't have caught the guy.

Oh, I'm gonna burn in hell.

[psychokind]

a wheelbarrow for the cross

[EverPhoenix]

since we've started the hellfires burning, ill keep it going.

get him a washing machine. that shroud of his could use a good clean

[inferiare]

But ok guys, TRY to be on topic? Try? For me?

[Jason Tandro]

Ahem... yes. Well as it happens there are other numbers of religious significance besides 666. 12, of course has significance in the bible (the twelve tribes of Israel, 12 apostles). 10 is another good one (10 commandments).

Math is considered by some to be the "Universal Language" so if there is a higher power and he is trying to convey a message that is very complicated, wouldn't it make sense to have some of his messages based in the use of numbers?