Virginia Tech Massacre

[Manibrandr System]

I have to say though, that guns, while offering an extended attack range, takes a lot of training to use. Given a Katana, anyone would have been more than capable of taking out 50 people, perhaps a dozen barehanded. There's a reason Muay Thai is called a deadly art.

[inferiare]

Muerte wrote:

How does one get a gun legally in US? I'm not entirely sure on the laws and regulations there. Either way, yes, people kill people, but guns help the average person a hell of a lot. If it weren't legally so easy to get one then I doubt so much would happen. Even security guards here can't carry guns unless they have the proper licenses, only the police get that ability, and they have to undergo quite a bit of training anyway.

I'm not too sure how they obtain them legally. Fill out paperwork, show that they've had classes on it and whatnot is what I'm guessing. I don't carry/use firearms, so I wouldn't know. But I know hunting specialty stores sell rifles and ammo, and your average wal-mart sells ammo.

I don't agree on banning guns, as I said before. Making them harder to obtain legally = fine. It's not taking away my right as a citizen. Of course, I'm pretty sure background checks are done on people when they want to get licensed to carry a firearm. So, when they did the background check on the batshit insane one, they saw his background was clean of criminal activity. SO, background checks = not the way to go.

[Manibrandr System]

In addenum, I'd like to point out that I can understand why people would want to restrict or ban guns, however untrue or irrational their reasoning may be. They WANT to believe that the only ones with the big guns are law enforcement and civil servants, and then trust then to save them everytime they're in danger. Criminals EXPLOIT the fact that a typical law-abiding citizen is unarmed and defenseless, and the police cannot respond quickly enough, more often than not, to an armed standoff with a criminal.

This is not a wake up call for people to ban guns, this is a wake up call to make sure every citizen who is willing, is given and trained with the useage of a firearm. Forced ignorance and censorship is not the answer, education is.

[Hammerit]

Joan-Michele wrote:

I have to say though, that guns, while offering an extended attack range, takes a lot of training to use. Given a Katana, anyone would have been more than capable of taking out 50 people, perhaps a dozen barehanded. There's a reason Muay Thai is called a deadly art.

Yeah one of those or simply a kitchen knife will do the trick too. It's silent and causes severe injuries. A gun isn't that effective if one aims for as many kills as possible, because it's very noisy so everyone will hear it, panic and leave the building limiting the victim number.

@the anti-gun lobby:

Just look at whats allready banned in planes: knifes, nail knippers, sciccors ... WTF am I the only one finding this paranoid? THe only way to really ban all things that can kill is to nuke the world and start civilization anew ... I hope non of this so-called democratics is ever obsessed by this idea ô.Ô

It's not just the "right to protect" legalizing guns, it's also the "freedom of property". There is no use for ban rules of any kind in general; Everyone should be able to aquire what he thinks he needs.

Here in germany the following things are forbidden (meaning you're not allowed to buy, own, sell or wear them in public):

All guns
All Knifes which are two-side-sharpened
All knifes with a blade longer than ~20cm
All Punch- Rings (including the spiked ones)
All Butterfly knifes
All kinds of swords

speaking of paranoia I guess germany wins the race, right? ^^

[inferiare]

Hammerit wrote:

Joan-Michele wrote: I have to say though, that guns, while offering an extended attack range, takes a lot of training to use. Given a Katana, anyone would have been more than capable of taking out 50 people, perhaps a dozen barehanded. There's a reason Muay Thai is called a deadly art. Yeah one of those or simply a kitchen knife will do the trick too. It's silent and causes severe injuries. A gun isn't that effective if one aims for as many kills as possible, because it's very noisy so everyone will hear it, panic and leave the building limiting the victim number. @the anti-gun lobby: Just look at whats allready banned in planes: knifes, nail knippers, sciccors ... WTF am I the only one finding this paranoid? THe only way to really ban all things that can kill is to nuke the world and start civilization anew ... I hope non of this so-called democratics is ever obsessed by this idea ô.Ô

That's only on planes. The nail clippers/files or whatever is stupid, but knives and scissors are dangerous. Knives, as far as I know, were already banned on planes anyway. Guns are banned on planes, since if you shoot while in mid-air, the cabin depressurizes, and everyone spirals to their fiery death. The stupid things like toothpaste and all that is just stupid.

But banning guns in general because they can be dangerous in the wrong hands = no. In the hands of any general psycho bent on killing people, anything could be used as a weapon.

[Muerte]

Joan-Michele wrote:

This is not a wake up call for people to ban guns, this is a wake up call to make sure every citizen who is willing, is given and trained with the useage of a firearm. Forced ignorance and censorship is not the answer, education is.

I didn't mean censorship and all that is the answer, since it never is. In a way I agree with what you're saying, but the fact of the matter is that people are stupid and irresponsible, even giving them education wont stop anything. Why? Because in general people, even if they know how to use something will not do so responsibly.
A lot of teens (depending on where you're from) already drink plenty of alcohol before they get to a legal age to do so, when it becomes legal for them it tends to get out of hand. What if heroine, ice, or whatever drug you can think of became legal, do you really think people would use it responsibly? There would be so many more overdoses it wouldn't be funny (except to me, but thats because I'm incredibly morbid and cruel ).
Would guns really be different? I know had I been legally allowed to carry a gun there would have been plenty of times I would be tempted to use it on people.

[Flamez]

I love how americans get all defensive about there rights as a citazen when you say ban guns

Your country's biggest problem is the fact that the average joe can get his hands on a weapon that is lethal with very little experience (common, no one is gonna hack down30 people with a sword unless they know what there doing... and can run really fast). Yes i know that banning guns wont stop people getting ahold of them, but it does mean there will be far less of them out there, and belive it or not less guns = less people being shot by guns. Sure your determined crims are still gonna get the guns, but not all of them.

idiots with guns kill lotsa people, idiots with knifes kill less.

[Manibrandr System]

I like how you assume I'm American and then lump all of them in the same category. I believe this underscores an even bigger problem society has, nobody trusts each other anymore.

[chicken]

of course you cannot trust each other if everyone bears a gun... in these days you could get killed by anybody because of nothing.... so its just logical sequence that there could be no trust if you have the thought of possibly dropping dead every second in the back your mind...

[Manibrandr System]

Yes, because EVERYONE is a potential criminal.

[SoulBlazerFan]

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need guns at all- whether or military or police use. In a perfect world, the worst crime you could commit is stepping on a crack and breaking your mothers back. In a perfect world, we could blow bubbles out of our asses.

Guns are dangerous in the hands of even the trained. How many people die of gun-related accidents, by cleaning their gun and accidentally putting a slug between their eyes? What about that video of the cop who accidentally shot himself in the foot, while teaching people about gun safety?

A co-worker of mine, who is a NYPD officer, was shot by a car which he'd pulled over. He was wearing a bullet proof vest, but even still. If there was a serious crackdown on guns, to the point where no had access to any, save police officers, I personally feel we'd have less world fatalities. I mean, hell, we gave the Afghanies weapons, as did Russia, and they started killing us when we went to war with them, the same guns we'd sent them so they could protect themselves.

It is, of course, not every day someone goes on a killing rampage. If this Cho guy didn't have access to any guns, would he still have killed all those people? If If Klebold and Harris didn't have access to guns, would we have had the Columbine Massacre? I just want the violence and death to stop, and if I had my way, it would. In a perfect world...

[Muerte]

Joan-Michele wrote:

Yes, because EVERYONE is a potential criminal.

Perhaps, after all, most people go through phase where they wish they could kill someone, or hurt, or whatever. Its rather natural, just most don't have the means to do so, and don't bother.

The bigger problem is people in general are irrational and stupid. Just the other day at the arcades here, some guy lost, shoved the machine a little, stood up and started to leave. The guy that one stood up and said "What?" which was answered by a "What?" ... this exchange was repeated for awhile until it ended with the guy who lost coming over and punching the guy, after that his friends restrained him (the other guy went out like a light apparently). Something as small as losing a game can make an idiot do that, then how much (or little) would it take for irrational people like that to shoot someone on a whim?

I don't agree either with banning guns, but I do think restrictions should be put into place.

Just for the hell of it, since a lot of Australians began trying to emulate Americans our society has become more dangerous, less laid back, I really don't like it. I don't blame Americans for that though, just stupid impressionable Aussies. Very little relevence to the topic, just shits me off is all.

Joan: I'm not assuming you're American and lumping them all in together. I just disagree with your thoughts on handling the matter/

[Zhetty]

Wait, what? People do kill people and guns make it far easier. There's less effort to pull a trigger, than to stab someone multiple times, beat them to death, or run them over.

I am for gun control, but it wouldn't be logical to ban them all together. For example, in rural and less populated areas, having a gun is more logical. There's not as many law enforcement officers, and a person needs to defend themselves in the event police cannot arrive in time. It's not like in large urban centers where police could arrive in three to five minutes.

Yes people have the right to defend themselves, but having access to a weapon which can allow people to kill indiscriminately isn't too logical. Guns aren't foolproof protection. In an attempt to defend someone, one could just as easily shoot an innocent person. Stray bullets and such.

[inferiare]

Flamez wrote:

I love how americans get all defensive about there rights as a citazen when you say ban guns Your country's biggest problem is the fact that the average joe can get his hands on a weapon that is lethal with very little experience (common, no one is gonna hack down30 people with a sword unless they know what there doing... and can run really fast). Yes i know that banning guns wont stop people getting ahold of them, but it does mean there will be far less of them out there, and belive it or not less guns = less people being shot by guns. Sure your determined crims are still gonna get the guns, but not all of them. idiots with guns kill lotsa people, idiots with knifes kill less.

And I love it how I get stereotyped that I'm getting defensive about something.

Banning guns wouldn't do shit. Banning guns = no protection against the criminals that have them. Yeah. That's super effective right there, because a bat/knife/anything else that can be used against a gun will certainly protect me from someone who wants to rob/rape/shoot me when I don't have a gun myself.

[Muerte]

rainichan wrote:

Banning guns wouldn't do shit. Banning guns = no protection against the criminals that have them. Yeah. That's super effective right there, because a bat/knife/anything else that can be used against a gun will certainly protect me from someone who wants to rob/rape/shoot me when I don't have a gun myself.

But having a gun is barely anymore protection there anyway, unless you know already that they're coming up to you and ready to do something, you're going to be caught off guard and not have enough time to react. If you try to go too fast to defend yourself with your gun then you've a bigger chance of being shot(by both you and the attacker) than just getting whatever is in your wallet taken.

If somebody is trying to rob you then they're probably holding a gun or knife right up in your face or back, a sudden movement other than one which will move their aim away from you will more often than not backfire. Probably the best course of action if they're pointing it right in your face is to look completely relaxed then suddently snap both your arms out one on the inside of the attackers wrist and one of the outside of their hand, the sudden shock forcing them to lose their grip you can either send whatever they have flying or if you do it slower take control of the item. If they're behind you then you certainly wont have enough time to do anything.
If somebody is trying to rape you, close quarters like that a Gun wouldn't be as effective as Mace(Pepper Spray, or whatever) or even better, a taser. Knives work there too, and they're far less likely to disarm you of the knife if the hilt is only large enough for you to grip it, since they're forced to try and take it off you by the blade, where with a gun its rather easy to grip and point away.
If somebody is trying to shoot you, chances are you'll be shot before you have time to react to anything.

Guns are made for mid to long distance combat, there's certainly no need to use them at a short range since there will more often than not be a far more effective way of dealing with things.