What Makes a "Pervert"

[Jason Tandro]

Okay this is a somewhat less than serious debate, but I was just wondering.

I often get called a "pervert" by my friends (jokingly) and by other people on and offline (not so jokingly) because of my bondage fetish. And lately on the boards, it's been being brought up in conversation a lot (mostly semi-naturally, but occassionally I bring it up for some self-effacing humor).

But I now want to have a serious discussion about this. What makes a pervert? It can't be a fetish, because EVERYBODY has one. To me, a pervert is somebody who can't have a conversation without bringing up sex, and who continually brings up the possibility of sex with other people. Pervert is a person who crosses this boundary all the time.

But what do you think?

[Freedan]

Humans are sexually driven, and what makes a pervert is very subjective. With that in mind, just about anyone could be called one for some reason or another.

To many people, a pervert would be someone with unnatural desires (though since so many have different desires, who's to say what's unnatural? There's the subjectivity.) . To me, it's when they can't control those desires and seek only their own gratification that makes a pervert. Or rather, an 'infatuated pervert'. Different than the 'casual pervert', which, as I said, is pretty much everyone in some way.

Example: You have your fetish. But you don't obsess over it or force it on anyone for your own pleasure. Therefore, not a pervert. (That is, infatuated pervert, which, for the sake of this discussion, means "pervert". "Casual pervert" only refers to those with uncommon desires).

[tay120n64]

I believe that anyone who expresses his/her sexual desires at an inappropriate time is a pervert.

Example (Animaniacs-style):

Good Idea: Liking girls in skirts and frilly panties
Bad Idea: Voyeurism

Good Idea: Tying up your partner before intercourse
Bad Idea: Carrying around fuzzy handcuffs

Good Idea: Always use protection!
Bad Idea: Showing off all the condoms in your wallet

Good Idea: Studying anatomy to better understand the physical aspects of life
Bad Idea: "Anatomically Correcting" cartoon characters


Essentially, the idea I'm trying to convey here is that there is a time and place for (nearly) every type of sexual behavior, and one is only a pervert if he/she does not respect society's inherent laws.

Except for porn. For some reason, porn is always inappropriate. Even though there are some people out there (men and women alike) who totally like to get it on while watching it. (btw: it's effing sweet)

[Jason Tandro]

Bringing up pornography is a great way to derail the immediate debate... or maybe not. I mean I suppose one could say that pornography is immoral (i would, believe it or not, agree with that), but to say that instant viewing of porn makes one a pervert is a tad much. Everybody, at one point or another, has viewed pornography in some form.

[Yet One More Idiot]

Jason Tandro wrote:

Bringing up pornography is a great way to derail the immediate debate... or maybe not. I mean I suppose one could say that pornography is immoral (i would, believe it or not, agree with that), but to say that instant viewing of porn makes one a pervert is a tad much. Everybody, at one point or another, has viewed pornography in some form.

Actually, not so. I own no porn, and get off solely to hentai.

Another example though:

"Normal": Getting off to porn/hentai in the privacy of your own home.
"Pervert": Carrying hentai around with you at all times on the off-chance of a "quickie"; rushing home at inappropriate times for a masturbation session; etc;. :p

[Jason Tandro]

Yomi's Evil Twin Intern wrote:

Jason Tandro wrote: Bringing up pornography is a great way to derail the immediate debate... or maybe not. I mean I suppose one could say that pornography is immoral (i would, believe it or not, agree with that), but to say that instant viewing of porn makes one a pervert is a tad much. Everybody, at one point or another, has viewed pornography in some form. Actually, not so. I own no porn, and get off solely to hentai. Another example though: "Normal": Getting off to porn/hentai in the privacy of your own home. "Pervert": Carrying hentai around with you at all times on the off-chance of a "quickie"; rushing home at inappropriate times for a masturbation session; etc;. :p

Forgive my ignorance, but I fail to see the division here. Hentai is merely animated pornography, pornography being defined as "any medium intended solely for the pupose of sexual excitement and stimulation".

[Yet One More Idiot]

Well you're right, there isn't really much of a distinction, except that porn is generally a term used for such materials that feature real persons, while hentai is drawn stuff. A necessary distinction for when porn is illegal but hentai is not.

[psychokind]

common sense makes a pervert a pervert. I'd consider everyone with a fetish a pervert, but without seeing "pervert" as something negative.

and not everyone has a fetish, since not everything's a fetish. example:

normal: "leave your skirt on, it's hot!"
fetish: "please wear a skirt while we are having sexual intercourse."

normal: "hey boyfriend, look, I forgot to undress my socks " - "no problem girlfriend, I like your little cute socks"
fetish "please wear socks while we are having sexual intercourse."

[tay120n64]

Well, what I'm trying to say though, is that while fetishes can be seen as normal and acceptable by society, provided they are kept "in the bedroom", it seems that society as a whole has a predisposition against pornography.

I mean, it's understandable of course, but it just seems rather odd that most other forms of perversion can be looked at in a positive light if brought up when they are appropriate. (Or maybe I'm thinking too narrow?)

[Jason Tandro]

@psychokind: I disagree entirely, because how often does this scenario happen? (I'll be doing this in the manner you presented)


Normal: "Oh, look boyfriend, I just happened to get my arms tied behind my back" - "That's okay, I like it when you're tied up"

Perverted: "Can I tie you up before sexual intercourse?"

Frankly, the guy in the "normal" column is the weirder one, because he wouldn't free the girl. The guy in column B, the "perverted" one is:

1. being honest and open about his sexual attractions
2. taking the girls considerations and feelings into account by ASKING instead of TAKING.
3. is not trying to force anything upon her.

The problem is, psychokind, you are wrong. Everyone has a fetish. It's just to what degree that fetish takes over your sexual encounters.

[Mantaray]

In Japan, it's not uncommon to see several guys looking through porn/hentai out in the open everywhere you look. And there's a small section on the back of their daily newspaper for people to look at.

I've just read that somewhere. It's sad...

[Yet One More Idiot]

I read this once somewhere:

A normal man might tickle his wife occasionally.
A kinky man would tickle her with a feather.
A pervert would use the whole chicken.

[EverPhoenix]

back on topic, kind of

id have to a say that a pervert is someone who openly expresses sexual desires/thoughts to an inappropriate level, when in the company of people. eg.

checking a girl out, coz you find her attractive - normal
staring at said girl's pants, chest, or other location of interest - perverted

mentioning areas of interest to anyone while there - perverted


and as for hentai, its blatantly porn. porn is just nakedness/sex for the sake of getting off.

personally, i cant stand hentai, yet im impartial to porn. dont make an effort to watch it, but wont cringe at the sight of it

[inferiare]

Off-topic to this debate: I find porn in any medium hilarious. I do get my awkward moments though, but porn is pretty funny to me.

On topic: I find people to be huge pervs when a conversation turns to sex almost immediately. There's a difference between people who are joking and who is serious, of course. The nerds around here are joking when something turns into innuendo, but when it's serious? Yeah ok, I don't need to hear how you'd bang someone and for how long after talking about food.

[Miss Prime Blue]

Well, everyone is pervert. I am, many people are. Some just know how to hide it better than others.

As long as you don't end up on dateline, there's nothing wrong with it.