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EverPhoenix
Level 19: Soul Blazer Rank: Resident
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EverPhoenix Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:34 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Freedan"] psychokind wrote: |
Quote: | "If we don't kill each other, we can't be happy"?
well, exactly. who cheerishs life without death? it is in thousands of different ways important that there painful things like war, death and cruelty. mostly economic reasons. but the main reason should be what I said, theres no happiness without sadness. |
I find I'm perfectly capable of enjoying life without ending someone else's.
As for those two bolded statements, again, I say... that applies to unavoidable tragedies, not man-made ones. |
i think this is from a relative perspective. without death, life wouldnt be as special as it is, and people would take it for granted. with the imminent prospect of death, life suddenly becomes a lot more valuable. the same for happiness. without sadness, there wouldnt be much to compare happiness too... so you need to have both to have either. its the whole "there is no shadow without light, and no light without shadow" point.
Freedan wrote: |
Quote: | well, there is no such thing as a "grand scheme", only in our minds, which makes us the only significant thing again |
Of course there is, and it isn't difficult to imagine it. You did so yourself, with that 'universe is made for us' bit.
Consider it from a universal perspective. If humankind went extinct tomorrow, would it affect anything other than our planet? Aside from the whole expanding thing, I can't see things being any different for it. |
from a universal perspective, if all life were to disappear tomorrow, the universe wouldnt really care. every celestial body would continue spinning as it does about whatever its relevant axes are.
the only way we would make a difference in the "grand scheme" is if anything we construct on the earth becomes significant, relative to the mass of the earth itself: some 6000000000000000000000000 (6E24) kilograms _________________
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Freedan
Level 19: Soul Blazer Rank: Resident
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Freedan Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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psychokind wrote: | if there's no death, there's no reason to be happy about life itsself.
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Agreed. What I don't agree with is that war, murder and cruelty is necessary to bring about that death, which is what you were claiming earlier:
psychokind wrote: |
who cheerishs life without death? it is in thousands of different ways important that there painful things like war, death and cruelty. |
I'm not disputing that sadness is a part of living, or that it can make people appreciate good times more. But I don't accept that actively and intentionally killing or hurting others does those things.
Quote: | the universe doesn't "think" or have a perspective. thinking like that is self-centered. |
I think you're splitting hairs here, possibly because of my maybe-improper use of the word 'perspective'. But I'm sure you know what I meant.
Anyway, that's all I'm offering on this one. I've already made my claims, I'm already arguing in circles, and I don't see it getting much better. _________________
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psychokind
fuck yeah!
Level 19: Soul Blazer Rank: Resident
Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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Location: Germany
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psychokind Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Freedan wrote: | I'm not disputing that sadness is a part of living, or that it can make people appreciate good times more. But I don't accept that actively and intentionally killing or hurting others does those things. |
that's right of course, I just think of intentionally and actively killing of other people is just human nature, and someone will always do it. that's why we can be happy to live in communities where it doesn't happen that often.
Quote: | I think you're splitting hairs here, possibly because of my maybe-improper use of the word 'perspective'. But I'm sure you know what I meant. |
I really wanted to say that any thought you have about perspective, or anything else the universe might "think", is self-made. we cannot perceive any kind of other way of thinking than our own. that's why I think we are, as long as we don't find aliens, the only significant thing in the universe.
Quote: | Anyway, that's all I'm offering on this one. I've already made my claims, I'm already arguing in circles, and I don't see it getting much better. |
too bad _________________
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