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tay120n64
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:15 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Jason Tandro wrote:
tay120n64 wrote:
Miss Prime Blue wrote:
There was never any real pressure for me to get "good grades" as a child. So, I usually found it easier to.


I was never pressured to do well, but my parents were always on my ass to NOT DO BAD.


Now you see I think that's just as bad on the opposite side of the spectrum. If you keep a kids nose too hard to grindstone, the second they have any freedom or independence they are going to rebel, naturally. I think there needs to be a balance of punishment for failure AND reward for success.


Yeah, but see, I was too scared to rebel. Plus I never wanted too. Funny story I was just reminded of: Back in high school, I had to wash dishes two nights a week. Well, one night I'm washing dishes, and my dad walks in the kitchen and says, "Hey, thanks for doing the dishes, son." Well, naturally I respond with, "What? I don't really have a choice, do I?" He laughs and says, "Well, you could say no, but then I'd have to beat your ass." I sigh and finish washing dishes.

It's good to have a sarcastic upbringing.

As for calling out grades in front of the whole class, that IS inappropriate. Grades should be kept confidential between the teacher, student, and parents (the latter excluded at a collegiate level).

My little sisters have all kinds of things I didn't growing up too, but my parents also have quite a bit more money now. And thankfully, they raise my sisters to be grateful, though the oldest of the four didn't learn that until she got a job and started college at 17. (so proud of her now! dropped out of high school at 16, but now maintains a 4.0 in college!)
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PostMiss Prime Blue Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:58 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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SoulBlazerFan wrote:


...It sucks that so many teachers end up becoming miserable assholes down the road- because they aren't allowed to truly teach- school isn't about learning the material, persay. It's also about getting the learning skills necessary to be able to do whatever you choose to do in life.

This generation coming, and the ones after, are doomed to be uptight shitheads who feel entitled to the world,and won't be able to grasp when they can't reach for the stars because they just assume everything will be handed to them on a silver platter. Without failure, you can never truly know success. (That one is going on FB)

My sisters are like this, sort of. I remember when I had to wait until the holidays to get anything I wanted- or work my butt off to pay for it.

My sisters bitch because the cellphones my dad got them aren't good enough, the computers my dad PAID IN FULL aren't up to par (I've never owned a real computer- they are just thrown together by my friends, which I had to pay for) and the fact that their iPods are out of date.

On more than one occasion, I told them if they weren't girls, I'd smack 'em upside the head. They have so much more me and my other two siblings (Me at 24 and they both at 23) ever had, and they can't be happy with the things they're given. Want to know what they do when we call them out on it? They start whining. Ugh.


Sorry about that. Siblings suck sometimes. ;[
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PostMantaray Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:48 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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SoulBlazerFan wrote:
I told them if they weren't girls, I'd smack 'em upside the head.


oh, trust me. being female should not get them out of discipline. if they're REALLY being snotty and whine your parents out of their hard-earned money all the time, feel free to give them a good bop on the head Very Happy they'll just use the fact as girls as saying, "haha, im a girl and you're not. i can get whatEVER i want!" unless you get it through their skulls that their genders dont get them special treatment off the bat


in fact, all elementary kids (well, the bad ones anyway[like %80 of them]) need a slap in the face =_= they'll all act like rich brats who think they dont need to do anything and wont ever strive for a challenge they can't win if they don't fail. they'll just take advantage of their D- (like freedan said above) and not do a flippin thing. just... slack.

that'll REALLY piss me off once i see it come around >_>


[edit--being totally growed up nau. what i should have said was, good on that, man. even if they deserve that bop on the head. little children act like they don't need to do anything, yet sooner or later they learn so long as good influences are in order.

ignore what younger me said Mad


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Postgamechampionx Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 10:29 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I never had good grades until about seventh grade.

The good thing was that I was able to exhibit that level of achievement before grade nine, because that's when kids got stuck into the applied (college) stream or academic (university) stream.

The problem where I grew up was that if you figured this out too late, they assumed you were stupid and weren't university material.
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PostManibrandr System Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:07 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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inferiare wrote:
Oh. It's the no child left behind bullcrap. Basically the kids won't feel inferior because their friends passed and they didn't because we have to shove the kids through school! Uh no, school is for LEARNING not coddling. If they're that freakin' worried about grades and shit, they should do like the colleges and set up places for the students to get extra help if they're not doing that already.

Trying to motvate kids to learn and try should be their main priority, as well as teaching them that they won't always be good at things.

And kids are already entitled little brats. If it weren't inappropriate for me to slap kids and shove a bar of soap in their mouths in my workplace, I would have done so already.


You have to remember that the behaviour of the kids is a reflection of their parents and how they are brought up. When brought up correctly, the kids can be very well behaved with no problems whatsoever. (Yes, I am saying that the kids today are entitled because their parents are equally as entitled.)

Also, if learning is to be their main priority, then going to a building a mile away is a very inefficient way to do it. It wastes time for commution, it wastes money and resources for boarding, and using speeches means that a lot of things can potentially get missed, which means more time is wasted repeating some points touched upon in the lecture. Not to mention that the emphasis on certain curriculum subjects is geared towards the industrial age, which our society is long past right now, and the style of delivery is very much assembly line style. Which ignores the fact that different people learn different things at different paces. Being an artist in elementary/middle school is hard because the curriculum pays so little attention to it, that most of it is shoved aside as an extra-curricular activity, and considering how demanding it is to learn art, and the stupid amount of homework the other subjects shovel onto you, you can imagine it'd be a task to juggle these aspects and still stay afloat in school.

Then there's the very dark reality of teachers with vested political interests taking advantage of the children's mental and emotional malleability to shove their own agendas down the throats of the kids, and getting away with it most of the time. Bullying is also a big problem.
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Postinferiare Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:50 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Valerie Valens wrote:
inferiare wrote:
Oh. It's the no child left behind bullcrap. Basically the kids won't feel inferior because their friends passed and they didn't because we have to shove the kids through school! Uh no, school is for LEARNING not coddling. If they're that freakin' worried about grades and shit, they should do like the colleges and set up places for the students to get extra help if they're not doing that already.

Trying to motvate kids to learn and try should be their main priority, as well as teaching them that they won't always be good at things.

And kids are already entitled little brats. If it weren't inappropriate for me to slap kids and shove a bar of soap in their mouths in my workplace, I would have done so already.


You have to remember that the behaviour of the kids is a reflection of their parents and how they are brought up. When brought up correctly, the kids can be very well behaved with no problems whatsoever. (Yes, I am saying that the kids today are entitled because their parents are equally as entitled.)

Also, if learning is to be their main priority, then going to a building a mile away is a very inefficient way to do it. It wastes time for commution, it wastes money and resources for boarding, and using speeches means that a lot of things can potentially get missed, which means more time is wasted repeating some points touched upon in the lecture. Not to mention that the emphasis on certain curriculum subjects is geared towards the industrial age, which our society is long past right now, and the style of delivery is very much assembly line style. Which ignores the fact that different people learn different things at different paces. Being an artist in elementary/middle school is hard because the curriculum pays so little attention to it, that most of it is shoved aside as an extra-curricular activity, and considering how demanding it is to learn art, and the stupid amount of homework the other subjects shovel onto you, you can imagine it'd be a task to juggle these aspects and still stay afloat in school.

Then there's the very dark reality of teachers with vested political interests taking advantage of the children's mental and emotional malleability to shove their own agendas down the throats of the kids, and getting away with it most of the time. Bullying is also a big problem.

Not really... kids can be brought up in a good home no problem and they can still turn out to be lazy little brats who tell their teachers/parents/figures of authority to shove it, because of society as a whole says it's ok for them to do so.

Their method of traveling to get to their school has nothing to do with it. Their parents take them, they ride the bus, they walk, ride their bike/skateboard, whatever. It doesn't really waste money when it's a requirement for them to be there. As for art/music being extra curricular, it sucks but I would imagine bullying would result from the one kid in class being made fun of because their picture wasn't as good as the rest. There's always alternate ways for children to learn art or music, though some aspects should be taught regardless.

I'll respond to the rest later. Work doesn't allow me to really put in good responses.
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:55 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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You can't really put art on the same level as subjects like math, science, history, and grammar. These are things every intelligent and worthwhile member of society needs to be aware of to function efficiently. You can make it through life without art. Granted you'd be rather dull, but you can do it.

Art is unimportant in grade school because you can't build a successful educational foundation off of art. Its something that comes later on, something that you really don't need to have such a strong focus on until adolescence and beyond, which I completely agree with. (and this is coming from a former liberal arts major)

It may seem unfair that artists have to struggle from the get-go, but hey, if you wanna be an artist, what better way then to learn early on that if you want to be successful, you better work damn hard, because there's a lot of competition and a lot of people who just don't care.
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PostMiss Prime Blue Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:58 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Actually, I disagree about not needing art. Art, depending on what kind it is, provides an outlet for personal creativity and also inspires confidence.
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:06 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Miss Prime Blue wrote:
Actually, I disagree about not needing art. Art, depending on what kind it is, provides an outlet for personal creativity and also inspires confidence.


I don't really mean we don't need art. I'm mainly trying to convey my belief that it is not as integral to education as other subjects, mainly in lower grades.
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:29 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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tay120n64 wrote:
Miss Prime Blue wrote:
Actually, I disagree about not needing art. Art, depending on what kind it is, provides an outlet for personal creativity and also inspires confidence.


I don't really mean we don't need art. I'm mainly trying to convey my belief that it is not as integral to education as other subjects, mainly in lower grades.


in lower grades it is more of a break from real study. trying to force young kids to do only pure academics is a challenge, and it could result in them disliking education from an early age - more than they might already
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Postinferiare Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:43 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I dunno, macaroni art is totally needed in school!

I kid, of course. Art and music isn't needed in lower levels, and if they have a talent they don't need the courses in school but if the parents want to nurture the talent, they can do so elsewhere.
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PostManibrandr System Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:09 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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inferiare wrote:
Not really... kids can be brought up in a good home no problem and they can still turn out to be lazy little brats who tell their teachers/parents/figures of authority to shove it, because of society as a whole says it's ok for them to do so.

Their method of traveling to get to their school has nothing to do with it. Their parents take them, they ride the bus, they walk, ride their bike/skateboard, whatever. It doesn't really waste money when it's a requirement for them to be there. As for art/music being extra curricular, it sucks but I would imagine bullying would result from the one kid in class being made fun of because their picture wasn't as good as the rest. There's always alternate ways for children to learn art or music, though some aspects should be taught regardless.

I'll respond to the rest later. Work doesn't allow me to really put in good responses.


Then there is something missing in the parenting, because responsible parents do not just let their kids run around tearing shit up.

That's the thing, with the internet technology, physical attendance is no longer a strict requirement. In fact, it could be argued that internet technology can make learning a lot more efficient and accessible. There's sites that you can easily look up if say...an unfamilliar term crops up. The student can simple pause the pre-recorded lecture, and then look up the term, instead of having to interrupt the class and ask the professor about it.

Also tay, I would beg to differ. The human mind is geared towards finding parallel concepts and patterns, and taking advantage of those ideas in a completely different field. Encouraging creativity encourages people to take a more creative and less orthodox approach to tackling a problem. Not only that, it helps people who are pure scientists visualize concepts and objects that would otherwise never see the light of day, or can never be visible to humans. It can also train people into becoming designers that enrich the lives of people, or in some cases, give an amputee with an otherwise dishearteningly ugly prosthetic as a reminder of their misfortune a mew lease of life with a more aesthetic and lifelike design. It is also very important in the entertainment industry, you know, games like say, the SB trilogy that brought us together in the first place, and nowadays, in today's games, there is a lot of technical know-how involved. Art can also very very closely tied to mathematics, because if you think about it, perspective is all about trigonometry, angles and the calculation of such.

I should also mention that some of mankind's best inventors are also accomplished artists.
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PostFlamez Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 7:49 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Valerie Valens wrote:

That's the thing, with the internet technology, physical attendance is no longer a strict requirement. In fact, it could be argued that internet technology can make learning a lot more efficient and accessible. There's sites that you can easily look up if say...an unfamilliar term crops up. The student can simple pause the pre-recorded lecture, and then look up the term, instead of having to interrupt the class and ask the professor about it.


This is a terrible idea, ask anyone who has gone through university or college and has done a course which has little to no contact with your teachers or professors, it dosent work. Such classes only succeed due to the sheer will power of the student wanting to do the class, it is a very strenous process and bad example of education.

In a school setting, there is no way at work at all. One of the key issues faced by teachers today is motivation, it is hard enough to get students to do their work in a school enviroment, an eviroment based educationg them. Some of the best educational methods (these have been proven) are simple things like group work, which cannot be replicated by sitting in front of a computer watching a pre-recorded class.

Currently there is still no replacment for good old one on one time with your educator.

Anyway, back to writing my final education essay for the year partially on this exact topic Laughing
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:35 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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They have us do internet-based training courses as part of my new job. Do you know how I, the emotionally and intellectually matured 22 year old man does this? I flash through the course once, get to the test and answer the questions. I usually pass.

Are you honestly going to expect me to believe that non-emotionally and intellectually matured children are going to take the coursework seriously? They'll pass all their tests, but they'll be the dumbest generation to date.

Physical attendance is a requirement. Home-schooling is fine too, for education if not for social skills (no offense to all my home-schooled friends, but I know several homeschooled people who had a hard time adjusting to the real world because their social skills weren't tested by the battle royale that is grade school).

But to say that we should just let the internet be the teacher to our children, solely, with no hands-on help or instructor set curriculum (pre-recorded lectures do not a curriculum make, ask a teacher).

Sorry, Val, but I find that concept preposterous.
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PostSoulBlazerFan Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:24 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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EverPhoenix wrote:
tay120n64 wrote:
Miss Prime Blue wrote:
Actually, I disagree about not needing art. Art, depending on what kind it is, provides an outlet for personal creativity and also inspires confidence.


I don't really mean we don't need art. I'm mainly trying to convey my belief that it is not as integral to education as other subjects, mainly in lower grades.


in lower grades it is more of a break from real study. trying to force young kids to do only pure academics is a challenge, and it could result in them disliking education from an early age - more than they might already


I also disagree entirely. Art is essential to learning. Instead of working the part of your brain that is used for mental storing of information, it builds upon the more creative part of your brain- both are something that is needed to engage the student to become a whole student. Imagination is a very essential part of your development as a person, whether you go into a field that requires it or not.
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