Which series should come to an end?

[Freedan]

Shiva Indis wrote:

Oh, is this an attempt at humor using some form of Asian broken English that only exists in the minds of the ignorant? How...cute.

More like highlighting the unpleasable nature of their fanbase. There is a point in there if you look past the blatant Engrish.

[Shiva Indis]

I know what point's supposed to be. As a member of the "srsly guys give Wind Waker a chance" camp, I'm pretty gratified by the message, but that doesn't make it any more than a "take that" aimed at a few loudmouths.

I'm not going to assume that reception of Wind Waker has improved with time. A game's legacy is a nebulous thing made up mostly of what your friends tell you. I do know, however, that the game's reception was good at the time, as is common with Nintendo 1st party games. On the other hand, no one could please all of the millions of people that consume Nintendo's classic franchises.

[tay120n64]

Shiva Indis wrote:

I know what point's supposed to be. As a member of the "srsly guys give Wind Waker a chance" camp, I'm pretty gratified by the message, but that doesn't make it any more than a "take that" aimed at a few loudmouths. I'm not going to assume that reception of Wind Waker has improved with time. A game's legacy is a nebulous thing made up mostly of what your friends tell you. I do know, however, that the game's reception was good at the time, as is common with Nintendo 1st party games. On the other hand, no one could please all of the millions of people that consume Nintendo's classic franchises.

Wind Waker suffered by being an excellent game that nobody wanted at the time.

[subjectnamehere]

Final Fantasy for decreasing in quality and Pokémon for refusing to change even slightly.

If I want a good J-RPG I'll just play Dragon Quest.

[psychokind]

tay120n64 wrote:

Shiva Indis wrote: I know what point's supposed to be. As a member of the "srsly guys give Wind Waker a chance" camp, I'm pretty gratified by the message, but that doesn't make it any more than a "take that" aimed at a few loudmouths. I'm not going to assume that reception of Wind Waker has improved with time. A game's legacy is a nebulous thing made up mostly of what your friends tell you. I do know, however, that the game's reception was good at the time, as is common with Nintendo 1st party games. On the other hand, no one could please all of the millions of people that consume Nintendo's classic franchises. Wind Waker suffered by being an excellent game that nobody wanted at the time.

you say that everytime and I answer everytime: cell-shading sucks ass (and it still does, it's just not appropriate), everyone was still used to the uber-awesome Link from Oot.

[Miss Prime Blue]

tay120n64 wrote:

Shiva Indis wrote: I know what point's supposed to be. As a member of the "srsly guys give Wind Waker a chance" camp, I'm pretty gratified by the message, but that doesn't make it any more than a "take that" aimed at a few loudmouths. I'm not going to assume that reception of Wind Waker has improved with time. A game's legacy is a nebulous thing made up mostly of what your friends tell you. I do know, however, that the game's reception was good at the time, as is common with Nintendo 1st party games. On the other hand, no one could please all of the millions of people that consume Nintendo's classic franchises. Wind Waker suffered by being an excellent game that nobody wanted at the time.

I loved windwaker. The shallow tools who refused to buy it because of the "kiddie graphics" missed out on a great game.

[Freedan]

psychokind wrote:

everyone was still used to the uber-awesome Link from Oot.

And that was the problem. Once 3D games came along, people became complacent with 'realistic' looking games. A change came along, and there were riots (read: people complaining on message boards a lot).

But if they hadn't changed the style, you can be sure that they'd be accused of remaking the past 3D titles (not that they don't face that complaint already).

[Miss Prime Blue]

Freedan wrote:

psychokind wrote: everyone was still used to the uber-awesome Link from Oot. And that was the problem. Once 3D games came along, people became complacent with 'realistic' looking games. A change came along, and there were riots (read: people complaining on message boards a lot). But if they hadn't changed the style, you can be sure that they'd be accused of remaking the past 3D titles (not that they don't face that complaint already).

True. People haet change. I mean, haet. If you only complain about the "graphics" on a game, instead of you know ... playing it, you shouldn't be playing games.

That's why i'm fortunate to be born in the 80's; I grew up with 8-bit and 16-bit games, none of the tripe we have now that's hardly as good as the classics. (In my opinion, anyway.)

[psychokind]

Freedan wrote:

psychokind wrote: everyone was still used to the uber-awesome Link from Oot. And that was the problem. Once 3D games came along, people became complacent with 'realistic' looking games. A change came along, and there were riots (read: people complaining on message boards a lot). But if they hadn't changed the style, you can be sure that they'd be accused of remaking the past 3D titles (not that they don't face that complaint already).

LttP is also a dark and serious game, it's just that Oot was more recent.

cell shading deserved to get punished. what would you say if Batman was painted in Little Pony style or sth? it's just not ok. and the thing least ok was to waste the awesome story set and soundtrack of windwaker to such a stupid experiment, against the will of all fans. the signs were they, but they wanted to pull it through.

[Miss Prime Blue]

[quote="psychokind"]

Freedan wrote:

psychokind wrote: everyone was still used to the uber-awesome Link from Oot. cell shading deserved to get punished. what would you say if Batman was painted in Little Pony style or sth? it's just not ok. and the thing least ok was to waste the awesome story set and soundtrack of windwaker to such a stupid experiment, against the will of all fans. the signs were they, but they wanted to pull it through.

It wasn't a waste - it was one of Miyamoto's visions. He said he saw link as a child, and wanted to convey that by using cel-shading. It was very original, almost no game looks like it - and the animation and colors were vibrant and really beautiful.

Personally, I think it was pretty brave of nintendo to come up with a unique style for graphics. People today just have no tolerance for imagination or difference whatsoever.

[subjectnamehere]

I've never seen Zelda as a "dark" franchise. What attracts me to the series is the "adventurous" feeling; that is, exploring, discovering new places, fighting monsters and solving puzzles and actually feeling like the Hero. This is also why I prefer Dragon Quest over Final Fantasy.

Skyward Sword seems to have that important little feeling that Twilight Princess lacked.

[tay120n64]

Wind Waker has better graphics than Twilight Princess.

It is also a far more "alive" world, with the most believable and deep cast of characters ever seen in a Zelda game. The biggest weakness of the series is its poor character development, yet characterization effing shined in Wind Waker.

@subjectnamehere: You should check out Pokemon Black/White. As soon as they said "infinite use TMs" my head exploded. They made a lot of needed changes this time.

[Freedan]

psychokind wrote:

cell shading deserved to get punished. what would you say if Batman was painted in Little Pony style or sth? it's just not ok. and the thing least ok was to waste the awesome story set and soundtrack of windwaker to such a stupid experiment, against the will of all fans. the signs were they, but they wanted to pull it through.

The underlined section isn't a valid comparison. Batman has a 70 year history of being essentially the same character in a city consistently shown to be dark, with characters, settings and stories usually modeled after reality.

The Zelda series features a different character with each entry (barring direct sequels, of course), in several different settings over a very large time frame in a fantasy world.

Fantasy lends itself to a lighthearted design more than reality.

The bolded part... do I really need to point out how absurd such a generalization is?

[Miss Prime Blue]

I have never heard the link to batman comparision, but it's quite amusing.

One, both are fantasy, and are made primarily for young kids-teens and even adults, but they are still fantasy. Given that zelda games are fantasy and not reality, they don't need to follow the strict protocol of "must be realistic all the time".

If zelda was instead called "The Legend of bob who works 9-5 while sipping his coffee", then no way i'd want to play it.

[psychokind]

Freedan wrote:

The underlined section isn't a valid comparison. Batman has a 70 year history of being essentially the same character in a city consistently shown to be dark, with characters, settings and stories usually modeled after reality.

zelda was already 15 years old, and although the zeldas had various styles they were never this ga... colourful(?). it was just too much, I'm okay with variety.

Quote:

The bolded part... do I really need to point out how absurd such a generalization is?

at least the magazines shot it down in flames. and the number of sales wasn't that awesome. I remember quite the protest after it's first appearance.

it's a good game, and a good zelda game. but cell shading is just crap, it's for... heck, I don't even know who this adresses to. same with these toon graphics back on the SNES. even we little boys thought of this as for girls or whatever.