TerraEarth Forums


Japan - worst case scenario ahead
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TerraEarth Forums Forum Index -> Debate Island
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
psychokind
fuck yeah!

Level 19: Soul Blazer
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 3436
Gems 10,444
Location: Germany

Postpsychokind Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:23 pm   Post subject: Japan - worst case scenario ahead Reply with quote

Reply with quote
japanese government just stated that in 3 reactors of Fukushima a meltdown is likely; in reactor 2 it maight already have begun. worst case would be the plutonium melting down into the groundwater and causing a huge steam-explosion.

what are your thoughts? has the time come to quit nuclear power? although the japanese operator of the plants is known for his lack in maintenance, such operators are propably existant in most countries - and it couldn't have helped anyway against the tsunami.

ps: I've seen (a lot of) pictures of us-american facebook users stating "karma-revenge for pearl harbour", do you think the same?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
inferiare
TerraEarth Historian

Level 20: Guardian of Pandora
Rank: Administrator

Administrator


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6791
Gems 14,506
Location: Under a rock, which is under a bigger rock...

Postinferiare Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:00 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
Then those americans are kind of assholes. Their karma for Pearl Harbour was Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and they've done nothing bad to us since.

I'm not too sure what to think of the situation in Japan atm, I'm really just worried for them more than anything.
_________________

Presia firle anw faura,
van futare parge iem...
Melenas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Windows Live Messenger
Mantaray
Level 14: Chariot
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 824
Gems 6,635

PostMantaray Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:06 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
Aw, first the earthquake, then the wave, now the nuclear reactors are melting? Gosh Sad

I highly doubt it was karma. (Those fb jerks should go back to school and brush up on WWII) It was just the earth doing what it does.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Freedan
Level 19: Soul Blazer
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 3856
Gems 10,167
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostFreedan Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:36 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
sora-mage wrote:
Aw, first the earthquake, then the wave, now the nuclear reactors are melting? Gosh Sad


Don't forget a volcano going off.

It's unfortunate; Japan is a real target for natural disasters. They seem to occur with alarming frequency there.

As for the 'revenge for Pearl Harbour', I've heard that as well. I'm pretty sure that's what the A-bombs were for. Those people can fuck right off. That was 70 years ago, and we're no longer at war.

Tragedies have a way of bringing out the very best and the very worst of people.
_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Windows Live Messenger
EverPhoenix
Level 19: Soul Blazer
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 4183
Gems 8,804
Location: Behind a screen

PostEverPhoenix Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:15 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
what's happening in japan is just extraordinarily bad luck. not karma, or anything. bombs in WWII were enough.

on what psychokind said, i dont think this is a reason to give up on nuclear power. the meltdown was caused by the earthquake, wasn't it? it is very difficult to make something natural disaster-proof, as they come unexpectedly and are quite devastating at worst.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mantaray
Level 14: Chariot
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 27 May 2009
Posts: 824
Gems 6,635

PostMantaray Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:06 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
Still, it makes you think. nuclear waste is lethal and you can't dispose of it. Maybe we should feed it to the sun XDDD give it an extra year or two of fuel.. haha

Meanwhile the people closest to the danger in japan should evacuate until this madness ends ._. I think Hawaii did it once, or came close to it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jason Tandro
The Undying TE Fanatic

Level 20: Guardian of Pandora
Rank: Moderator

Moderator


Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 6383
Gems 8,090
Location: Tiptoeing the line between confidence and arrogance.

PostJason Tandro Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:42 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
I'm not a whiny liberal by any means, but it's hard to see stuff like this and credibly argue that nuclear power is the safest energy source we have...

I mean the worst solar energy ever did was give a guy melanoma. Mad
_________________
Support me on Patreon!

Rest in peace, old avatar.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
psychokind
fuck yeah!

Level 19: Soul Blazer
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 3436
Gems 10,444
Location: Germany

Postpsychokind Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:08 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
EverPhoenix wrote:
on what psychokind said, i dont think this is a reason to give up on nuclear power. the meltdown was caused by the earthquake, wasn't it? it is very difficult to make something natural disaster-proof, as they come unexpectedly and are quite devastating at worst.


it was caused by the tsunami. they had protection against it, but not enough for a 10 meter wave.

wouldn't be a really good argument against nuclear power that it in fact is very difficult to make something natural disaster-proof? because if we can't guarantee it, the time and disaster will come to cause a catastrophe that is far worse than anything nature could cause. we can rebuild and reproduce - but we can't get rid of nuclear radiation.

I was always a fan of germanys nuclear power-exit in 2020. I found it ridicolous that we got rid of that without need, and I hope japan brings us back to it again.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SoulBlazerFan
Crisis Historian

Level 18: Earth Spirit
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 2373
Gems 10,267
Location: M-Town, Jersey

PostSoulBlazerFan Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:36 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
Well, maybe they were right about the whole 2012 thing afterall. Sad

On a more serious note, nuclear power is incredibly dangerous, as anyone who knows about Cherynobl and the disasterous consequences can tell you. I believe there was also a meltdown at a place called Three Mile Island- but my memory is failing me at the moment. :/

However, it may yet be a necessary evil. It's not like anyone could foresee a tsnuami of that size coming and doing that kind of damage. There should be better safe guards, sure, but there are just some things you can never expect to happen. Ask anyone on September 10 of 2001 if they thought two planes could take down the towers- they would've said you were nuts.

I've just read they've been reading higher than normal amounts of radiation in Germany as well as France. This isn't just a localized issue anymore- it may be international.

And I agree with the general sentiment here- this isn't as much about retribution or anything. People love to jump onto any bandwagon- hell, there isn't even that many people left in the world who even remembers or was alive for Pearl Harbor- it was over seventy years ago. I think I read somewhere theres like, one or two Vets from WWII even alive today. It's stupid people would even bring it up, other than something run their mouths for. Mad
_________________
"...at first it's fine and you think you have a dark side – it's exciting – and then you realise the dark side wins every time if you decide to indulge in it. It's also a completely different way of living when you know that...a different species of person." - Lana Del Rey
This User Has Completed




SBiF: Uppercutting cats since '09
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Flamez
Hail to the King baby!

Level 16: Cursed Armor
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 1240
Gems 7,228
Location: Australia

PostFlamez Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:24 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
I'm going to be the selfish one and say, I hope the radiation doesn't decide to travel directly south...

That said, what is happening in Japan is fucked. SBF mentioned Chernobyl, easily the worst nuclear disaster ever, its been decades and you still can't go into some of the affected areas where the fallout accrued. Now this happened in Europe, the USSR. Anyone who know anything about the USSR back in the 80s knows that it was huge; imagine what a disaster of similar magnitude will do to a country the size of Japan, its a scary thought indeed.
_________________

Joined TE on May 30, 2002, 2:26am!
Yeah, beat that.

I'm hot stuff.

http://terraearth.proboards.com - Original TE forums.
http://www.facebook.com/lochy - I gots facebook! yay for social networking?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
psychokind
fuck yeah!

Level 19: Soul Blazer
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 3436
Gems 10,444
Location: Germany

Postpsychokind Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:24 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
SoulBlazerFan wrote:
However, it may yet be a necessary evil. It's not like anyone could foresee a tsnuami of that size coming and doing that kind of damage.


why not? who said the tsunami waves will only be 8 meters high and the quake only up to 8 on the richters scale? for the last 10 years, nature has gone way over the top in every possible way Very Happy it's totally predictable that something unpredictable can happen any time. we now saw what then happens to the plant and the country itsself - chernobyl was man-made.

now every country has to choose if they want to live with that risk and hope it will be not in their period of office - or if they want to quit and maybe have to use fossil energies again.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fazermint
Shameless Pirate

Level 10: Dark Bat

Level 10: Dark Bat


Joined: 15 Jan 2011
Posts: 336
Gems 712

PostFazermint Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:48 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
SoulBlazerFan wrote:
However, it may yet be a necessary evil. It's not like anyone could foresee a tsnuami of that size coming and doing that kind of damage.


That is a point of debate. There exists solid technology that can foresee these things, or at least I think so. Or maybe I've seen too many movies.. XD
_________________
Hey. I'm Fazermint. And I'm Juicy!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
inferiare
TerraEarth Historian

Level 20: Guardian of Pandora
Rank: Administrator

Administrator


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6791
Gems 14,506
Location: Under a rock, which is under a bigger rock...

Postinferiare Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:38 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
Sort of. People can detect when the tectonic plates shift which is what causes earthquakes, but it's really not until the earth starts shaking like a baby in a paint shaker that they really detect that there's a disturbance in the force. If the quake hits in the ocean, there's always a chance of a tsunami, but sometimes it fizzles out by the time it gets to land. I don't think there's any real way of finding out how big the wave will be until it hits.
_________________

Presia firle anw faura,
van futare parge iem...
Melenas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Windows Live Messenger
PaGaN3l3m3nts
Level 7: Raiden

Level 7: Raiden


Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Gems 1,022
Location: U.S.A.

PostPaGaN3l3m3nts Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:00 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
Here is a detailed article on how these reactors are constructed, and what exactly happened.

Short version is that the quakes and tsunamis really did next to nothing to the reactors - it's just the lack of power that's the problem, as once the reactors shut down, they still need cooling systems to bring them out of critical state. And no power means no cooling systems. Their back-up generators were damaged by the tsunami, and their battery back-up didn't have enough juice to complete the cooling. Currently relying on pumping in sea water and getting new generators sent in, and pumping out (very) trivially radiated timed exhaust to keep pressure from building to dangerous levels.

So, there shouldn't be anymore problems. Hopefully. :fingers-crossed:
_________________
Overwhelmed with gestalt possibilities...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Freedan
Level 19: Soul Blazer
Rank: Resident

Resident


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 3856
Gems 10,167
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostFreedan Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:06 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

Reply with quote
psychokind wrote:
chernobyl was man-made.


Chernobyl was also an anomaly. It was poorly built, poorly maintained, and run by people who had no idea what they were doing.

More modern plants have much more in the way of safeguards. In this case, it took a quake and tsunami of biblical proportions, followed by a few explosions just to damage it.

In most places, that wouldn't be a problem. Nuclear plants are very solidly built, meant to withstand a massive beating with barely a scratch. The problem here is that Japan is among the (if not the) most quake-prone country in the world, and tsunamis are inevitable, being on the ocean.

Japan's plants were built to withstand quakes and waves, but no one expected a 9.0 quake. Hindsight is always 20/20; it's easy to say now that "they should have expected something big", but until now, the biggest they've ever seen in their recorded history is low 8's. They made something capable of withstanding upper-mid 8's, and got slammed with a 9.
_________________


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Windows Live Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TerraEarth Forums Forum Index -> Debate Island All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum