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Jason Tandro
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:49 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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inferiare wrote:
The necessities of a FF game are there in FF13.

A lot of people didn't like The Spirits Within because "it wasn't Final Fantasy, there wasn't any FF-related elements in it! No chocobos, no moogles, nothing!" which... omg so what? Chocobos weren't in the originals, nor were moogles. Moogles weren't a staple in the series until 5 or 6, and chocobos weren't in the games until 3 or 4 (I can't remember and I can't be assed to look it up at the moment.)


Chocobo's from II.
Moogle's from III.
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PostBlade Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:22 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Fazermint wrote:
It's hard for game designers... Die hard Final Fantasy fans do not welcome changes very much, but others think that if it's always the same, it's boring as well. Finding the balance point between keeping it in a good, old FF style and bringing in something new is really hard.


That's probably one of the most difficult things to do for gamedesigners of a well-established series. Like in New Super Mario Bros., you can clearly put your finger on "this is new" and "this is nostalgic". That creates a quite self-aware feel within the game, and prevents me from diving into them like I did in my hey-days of gaming :/
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:35 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Blade wrote:
Fazermint wrote:
It's hard for game designers... Die hard Final Fantasy fans do not welcome changes very much, but others think that if it's always the same, it's boring as well. Finding the balance point between keeping it in a good, old FF style and bringing in something new is really hard.


That's probably one of the most difficult things to do for gamedesigners of a well-established series. Like in New Super Mario Bros., you can clearly put your finger on "this is new" and "this is nostalgic". That creates a quite self-aware feel within the game, and prevents me from diving into them like I did in my hey-days of gaming :/


I could fill a whole topic solely on my feelings about NSMB. SRSLY.
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PostFazermint Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:47 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Blade wrote:
Fazermint wrote:
It's hard for game designers... Die hard Final Fantasy fans do not welcome changes very much, but others think that if it's always the same, it's boring as well. Finding the balance point between keeping it in a good, old FF style and bringing in something new is really hard.


That's probably one of the most difficult things to do for gamedesigners of a well-established series. Like in New Super Mario Bros., you can clearly put your finger on "this is new" and "this is nostalgic". That creates a quite self-aware feel within the game, and prevents me from diving into them like I did in my hey-days of gaming :/


Yah. Back in the day, every game got swallowed raw. Now they're ALWAYS compared to something, be it a prequel or the standards of today. You really have to view every game as a game on its own. Then it's much easier to enjoy it! [/wisdom]
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Posttay120n64 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:27 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Fazermint wrote:
Yah. Back in the day, every game got swallowed raw. Now they're ALWAYS compared to something, be it a prequel or the standards of today. You really have to view every game as a game on its own. Then it's much easier to enjoy it! [/wisdom]


This is why I love the Nintendo GameCube. The First-Party games of that era were fantastic because they weren't trying to appease anyone. Mario Kart: Double Dash, Zelda: Wind Waker, and Super Mario Sunshine are sublime experiences that nobody liked because they weren't Mario Kart 64, Ocarina of Time, or Mario 64, respectively.
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PostFazermint Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:24 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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tay120n64 wrote:
Fazermint wrote:
Yah. Back in the day, every game got swallowed raw. Now they're ALWAYS compared to something, be it a prequel or the standards of today. You really have to view every game as a game on its own. Then it's much easier to enjoy it! [/wisdom]


This is why I love the Nintendo GameCube. The First-Party games of that era were fantastic because they weren't trying to appease anyone. Mario Kart: Double Dash, Zelda: Wind Waker, and Super Mario Sunshine are sublime experiences that nobody liked because they weren't Mario Kart 64, Ocarina of Time, or Mario 64, respectively.


We are on the same wavelength here =D
Mario Kart: Double Dash was (IS) an awesome game. It was great that you could be two players on one kart, it was very welcome in my friend group.
Zelda: Wind Waker introduced Toon Link, and the game was loathed by many fans merely based on Link's appearance. I happen to love cel shaded graphics, and Wind Waker remains my favorite Zelda game, even though Twilight Princess was epic.
Sadly, I don't own Super Mario Sunshine. I reckon I'll buy it sometime, I see it's around 15 euros on auction sites.
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:15 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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i hated mario kart double dash, because the physics were retarded. the 2 people per kart was a good idea though.

wind waker i never played, partly due to it being rather expensive and me (i'll admit this) being a little bit put off by the graphics. my friends who had it did tell me it was awesome, but i was like "i'll get around to it"

super mario sunshine was a fun game, but i just lost patience with it quickly. dont know why, i just couldnt play it for very long without getting bored.



so... i'm ALMOST one of /those/ people.
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 7:27 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I know I'm reviving an old topic, but I have recently started FF13 again in an attempt to finish playing it- as well as to amend my original review.

So a little backstory (if you're gonna tl;dr, skip over the section in code.

Code:

Backstory:

Back in May I was on Chapter 4: Loathing and Fear in the Vile Peaks.  I had just beaten Odin and had a lot of fun with the little semi-minigame that followed where you were running around in the mech.

I stopped playing in the Scrap Processing area with Sazh and Vanille simply because I was exhausted.  I had failed to see the point of continuing to play.  About a week after I stopped playing I had a need for cash and sold my copy of Final Fantasy 13 to Game Stop (sorry tay, lol)

For my birthday my older sister Amity got me a Game Stop gift card.  So I went and purchased MW2 and with some cash left over and the bit on the GC, I purchased final Fantasy 13.  I did this just because I wanted to finish it.

The Scrap Processing area was boring as hell to me, but as the story began to unfold in Chapter 5 and the Gapra Whitewood my hope in the game began to renew.  Sure we weren't in open worlds yet, but the story was at least interesting.

Chapter 6 is where I really got hooked on the game again though.  Raini, you are totally right the Sunleth Waterway is probably the most beautiful "dungeon" I've ever seen in a Final Fantasy (I've yet to make it Gran Pulse).  It was also somewhat open in that you could choose your route (for the first time) and you could manipulate the weather patterns which facilitated CP farming (I'm a notorious power-leveler).

Chapter 7 was a total adrenaline rush and it's where we see the most dynamic change in the characters.  That was also where I had truly mastered the new combat system.  At first the Sentinel role felt totally useless to me until I discovered the Solidarity and Combat Clinic paradigms.  Switching between those (and then Relentless Assault for the main) made me virtually untouchable.

Chapter 8 was kind of a let down.  Yes Nautilus is beautiful and the Eidolon Parade was an amazing bit of FMV, but I thought for certain I'd arrived at the Gold Saucer of the place and even if it didn't last there'd be some mini-game or side amusement of some kind. 

And Raini, I apologize because knowing your taste in music I'm sure you liked it, but WHAT THE HELL DID THEY DO TO THE CHOCOBO THEME?!!?  At first the tonal modulation was unnerving.  But even then I could at least see some musical logic. It only sounded off-key because I'm used to the original sound and that under the storyline it kind of makes sense to hear a twisted version of a classic Final Fantasy thing, musically indicating we've changed the formula.

But then she starts singing?!?  Don't get me wrong I love the fact that this game incorporates more lyrical music.  It adds to the depth and feel of the game immensely.  Even the music on the Sunleth Waterway while it was a tad lofty and "My Little Pony"-ish for my taste, it at least made sense because the area was supposed to be a reflection of Vanille's character.

But the lyrics sucked, she hold her notes way too long and overall it didn't sound good... at all.  Sorry for the rant.

The end of Chapter 8 redeems it however because what happens at the end is just heart-breaking and shows (just like chapter 7) such a dynamic growth of the characters involved. 

Chapter 9 is also a massive Adrenaline rush with so much going on and us finally being able to choose our own battle team (this may seem like a long time to do so, but recall Final Fantasy 4 and 9 as examples that you don't always have that freedom.)  One complaint I have about chapter 9 is that the final area is excruciating at first considering the powerful enemies and the semi-labyrinthine layout.  However it is also a great place to CP-Farm since by going from top to bottom will respawn the enemies and most parties give out 500-1000 CP per battle.

And then Barthandelus... fucking Barthandelus....  This guy kicked my ass twice and then after a lot of CP farming I finally found the ideal strategy, which is simply to follow the Prima Strategy guides instructions, which worked like a charm! I beat him so fast he didn't even get to cast Doom on me (albeit not fast enough to get ANY stars.... how does that work???)

Chapter 10 was a let down too because at first I'd forgotten Raini's advice that it was Chapter 11, not 10 where the open world was introduced.  But considering it revealed the ability to use all roles for all characters it's so far impressing me. Oh no wait, that's not the right word... what is it?  Oh yeah. Boring the shit out of me.  This is introduced specifically as a training ground.  So a CP-farming area by its very nature.  But how can you CP farm when each battle group barely gets you 500-600 CP and the newest upgrades in the Crystarium are anywhere from 3000-6000 PER CRYSTAL!  Even the damn Greater Behemoth only net me 1000 and at that point I was just so tired of fighting that I ran to the end.

Earlier today I fought Cid Raines.  He had literally 6000 HP left and the bastard got a cheap shot at Lightning and took her down, and considering he starts with 228800 HP I was not willing to try that shit again.  And I just found out that that's the halfway point of this chapter.  So it might be a little bit before I play again....


Whew. Okay if you read that Backstory / Rant good for you, but if not, MY ACTUAL REVIEW STARTS HERE.

Put quite simply this game is at best 3 stars (out of 5).

What I Like:

The Battle System is very intersting and fast-paced and offers some unique strategies in facing opponents. The battle becomes less about just dealing out HP damage and more about how you inflict that damage with rapid-fire attacking and staggering changing the flow of combat.

The Music is of course incredible, not Uematsu but who cares the music perfectly fits the story which is all that matters. I plan on downloading the OST asap.

The Graphics are obviously amazing, showcasing to the fullest what the XBOX360 is capable of and not just relying on an interesting pallette to mask the game's sloppy artwork (I'm looking at you Eternal Sonata).

The Story is probably one of the best in the series. I know earlier I called it convoluted and it is. Even at this late stage I'm still confused as shit. But in a way it works because this story is not about the story itself but about the plight of the characters in it. I honestly think that no Final Fantasy has ever developed characters better than 13, and yes this is in contradiction of my original review, but really the relationships, emotions and so forth are so dynamic and realistic. This game makes you feel the sorrow and suffering of the characters and magnifies the joy when they get a lucky break.

Not that the other final fantasy's had bad characterization but the earlier ones were limited technically and even the modern ones that can even include voice acting and decent graphics still felt somewhat disconnected. Final Fantasy 7 was the exception and yes I know everybody harps on about this but it's true. 6 and 7 had the best characters of the series, without question. 13's characters aren't actually too special in themselves but the development of the characters and how the game makes us relate to them is second to none.


What I Hated:

The Battle System is great, but there are two damning flaws that occasionally make me overlook the awesome.

1. Leader Death = Party Death.

I understand it's whiny to complain about this when you can literally Retry any battle you want so Save Points are practically irrelevant, but in the longer and tougher boss battles (i.e. like my fights with Barthandelus and Cid Raines as mentioned in the Backstory) it can be really infuriating to have an enemy get a cheap shot and kill what could be 15 minutes of work.

2. The Battle System Is Based on Avatar Strengths

To an extent this is true in most Final Fantasy's, but it's especially damning in this one. Considering you level your characters based on a very strict and regimented flow which is usually congruent with the course of the game, there really isn't any difference in battle feel from your very first fight with the Manaservin Warmech and the later fights with other enemy bosses and Armatures.

They all follow the same flow:

Stagger Enemy-> Deal Massive Attacks->Switch to Defensive/Curative to prepare for Massive Enemy Attack-> Stagger Again (Rinse/Repeat)

As you gain more abilities your options to do this improve somewhat and you are able to more effectively tackle enemies, but essentially the process doesn't change much. This takes away from the uniqueness of battles and makes it feel more like grinding.

Remember Final Fantasy 7 and 8? Remember how there were so many different options for how you could attack and defeat your enemies?Even later in the game in X, where I would start teaching Yuna black magic skills and forever make Lulu irrelevant. This does not have that option.

Everything else I said in my original review still applies, I don't like the linearity and the game can really seem tedious at times.

I also want to comment on how absolutely pointless shops are in this game. With the exception of Unicorn Mart, I never shop anywhere, except Lenora's Garage, so that I can upgrade my weapons and accessories. Even the new cool weapons I get I don't bother using. I just sell them because I don't want to facilitate another grind of leveling up a weapon since Gil is very hard to come by in this game. All my characters are just using upgrading versions of the weapons they started the game with, with the exception of Vanille who is using a Bella Donna Rod instead of whatever she started with (did she start with Bella Donna Rod??? I can't remember).

I'm sure they'll prove more useful in Chapter 11 when I get to the open world, but I have to be honest from what I'm seeing of the open world screenshots, it looks more like a larger, glorified Calm Lands, than an open world experience. Maybe I'm wrong and this will be better, but I feel like by the time I get to it, I'll be so exhausted that the overall affect will be underwhelming.

In the immortal words of Zero Punctuation: "Don't hide your selling points. Hookers don't wear suits of armor, except at E3."

I feel like the 2 disks I've been playing are just an overly excited tutorial. I really feel like you could have let us run loose with the character development after Chapter 7 and didn't need to wait so long to teach us every minor detail of the game.

Anyways, that was an incredibly long rant. I'm done now.
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Postinferiare Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 2:12 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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13-2 took a lot of what people hated and changed it - when Serah dies in battle, you'll automatically switch over to Noel (or vice versa if you're using Noel as your lead), but once Noel dies it's game over.

You have a LOT more freedom in what you can do. The only new areas, so to speak, are Serendipity, the Coliseum, Academia, New Bodhum, and 700 AF (Noel's timeline) since it doesn't really tell you where it is on Pulse.

You only really have two party members: Serah and Noel. You get guest characters like Snow in some areas, but you don't control them. You also get monster party members to train - they even have their own Crystarium!

The Crystarium is a LOT nicer to use. You can customize your characters to be crazy powerhouses moreso than you could in the original. You get a better CP drop from monsters too, so by the end of the game you don't have to actually GRIND to beat the last boss. You get CP gain from finding fragments and doing sidequests.

But if you think FF13 is convoluted in story, wait til you get to 13-2!


BUT I will say that the music in 13-2 is gorgeous. I won't post spoilery music.

Noel's Theme - Vocal (I'm the biggest baby ever and this paired with his timeline and running around there makes me depressed Sad )

Sunleth Waterscape since you specifically mentioned it. Very Happy

New Bodhum (I have this on repeat in my car, ngl)
ALTERNATIVELY, the music in the area changes when enemies appear! So, New Bodhum - Aggression Mix

Historia Crux, the place you will spend the most time in.

Lake Bresha. The Japanese version had a rap in the background.


It's a lot shorter than FF13 itself, and so far the DLC for 13-2 is kind of lackluster, but I'm hoping it'll pick up soon. The game is a lot of fun though! I had a lot more fun with 13-2 than I did FF13, but that's just me.
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