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PostSoulBlazerFan Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:04 pm   Post subject: Batman/Superman film by 2015 Reply with quote

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Normally I'd add a question mark to the end of the title, but since DC just announced the Man of Steel sequel would be a Batman/Superman team up movie, it's pretty much a "sure thing."

Now, I'm not doubting that the film isn't going to be worked on. I'm doubting it will happen by 2015. The director already stated they were working on an iteration of a Man of Steel sequel, which when I heard the idea surrounding it, it peaked my interest. They were discussing a world where Superman isn't accepted or trusted, where he is moreso fighting the court of public opinion than some supervillain, although it's doubtful there will be any less action than the previous film.

That said, I might feel there will be some contention in here between the studio and the directors/writers. Was this the plan all along? Or is DC trying to steal some of that sweet Marvel thunder?

My debate is... can this movie work? As we've seen, DC has had a hard time even establishing long-running franchises. The original Superman film series... 1 and 2 were good (Even with turning the world backwards and memory-erasing kisses) and 3 and 4 are, largely steaming piles of horse dookie. Superman Returns was a let down.

Batman and Batman Returns were good films that complimented each other. Hell, I'll even give Batman Forever credit, I still love that movie. Then Batman and Robin... I don't even need to go there.

The new Nolan Batman Trilogy is a point of contention. I will say it now- I did not like what they did in Rises. The first two films are terrific as far as I'm concerned, with The Dark Knight possibly in my list as one of the best movies of all time. I felt that, largely, Rises was a wasted opportunity that never fully lived up to its potential and had several fatal flaws, including bad "shocking" reveals and logic that simply didn't work... but that is my opinion and a debate for another day.

A page on facebook posted this, and I replied, it's long so I'll throw a tl;dr for it (as I may have to at the end of this post as well)

Quote:
I think the Batman/Superman film will probably be a tragic, brainless mess...not created because there is a good script, but rather forced into being because it'll sell tickets opening weekend. Think about it...what could Batman have done to aide Superman to defeat Zod and his regime of Kryptonians and his Planetizer contraption? Pretty much nothing. What villain in the 'realistic Batman' universe of Nolan's would've posed any threat to Superman? None. Unlike the Marvel universe, if the two heroes were to butt heads, it wouldn't be a stalemate or power struggle. We've got an indestructible alien capable of holding up falling oil rigs and whose story was centered around the super amazing feats of strength he could achieve versus a masked vigilante who was very mortal and whose story was all rooted in emotional thematics and moral quandaries of the human condition. As much as I want this to work, I bet it'll be about as good as the long anticipated Alien vs Predator, or Freddy vs Jason...so much fun to conceptualize in theory, but so poorly executed that they are instantly forgettable. I'm calling it now, though I hope I'm wrong.


tl;dr: Film will probably be terrible, Batman and Superman make no sense being in a film together, like other team up movies high concept low delivery.

And here is my response:

Quote:
I have to disagree, mostly since it's been pretty much established that they won't be using the current "known" iteration of Batman, aka Christan Bale. If they don't use Bale or don't carry over "Robin" Blake, we'll likely have to sit through another origin story for Batman. Perhaps we'll see the birth of a different Batman that would fit in with the "Man of Steel universe." It could work, as many of the Batman/Superman crossovers have in comics (and even animated films), maybe they are mistrusting of one another, similar to the animated series "Batman and Superman Movie" they did many years back. Or maybe, like they said, it will be closer to parts of "The Dark Knight Returns," where Superman is being used by the government to take Batman out, and instead of fighting they end up teaming up and working together to take down a bigger threat. They never established who the president of the US was, so maybe it will be President Luthor? It's all speculation at this point, and hell, it might not even happen. Remember when "Superman Lives" starring Nic Cage, directed by Tim Burton, written by Kevin Smith, was a sure thing? Stages were built, there's even pics of Cage looking high as hell in the really crappy looking Superman suit. I say for the time being... I'll believe it when I see it. Also, I apologize the super long post XD


tl;dr: I disagreed, the film could work, but I concede that since Bale likely won't be back it would be another original story for Batman to set him up in this new universe.

He also mentions how bad Alien VS Predator was, as well as Freddy VS Jason. While I can't defend AVP, FVSJ is a different beast all together. None of those films, except maybe Nightmare 1, is a good film by any means, so I didn't except FVSJ to be a masterpiece, and in the context of the other films in the respective franchises I think it ranks higher than films like Nightmare 5 or Jason Goes to Hell.

AVP failed because you have a sort of... high brow film in Alien, and action film in Aliens, and two pretty bad sequels, whereas Predator 1 was a Arnold Schwarzenegger vehicle, and that sequel was a mess, it wasn't very hard to see that film failing, and it's own sequel failing even worse.

Back to the original post... the idea of of a Batman Superman film isn't new, and has been tried in the past. With DC not having the same benchmarks as Marvel like a pre-established universe, several extremely successful movies all linked together, this will be a difficult sale. We already a reboot of Superman from 2006, but a three year gap before introducing a new Batman, especially one so well received by fans? I'm starting to question it, but I hope DC decides to wrangle in Bale and Nolan again and do this film right. While I do still think Rises wasn't up to snuff, I think Bale was finally getting Batman right... even if Batman was only in a Batman film for less than thirty minutes.

What are your feelings on this announcement? Any other things at comic con strike you? Discuss.

(On a final note, while I was writing this I was trying to spell Arnold Schwarzenegger's name, and wouldn't you believe it's a word that can be auto-corrected? I used auto-correct and his name, properly spelled, comes up. I don't know about you, but that is simply just weird to me)

EDIT: Also, for anyone who didn't skip my quote, here is the pic of Nicolas Cage as Superman for the never made "Superman Lives" film.


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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 5:55 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I think it'll probably be enjoyable. But then again, I generally enjoy newer superhero movies.

And in the universe where Batman and Superman coexist, doesn't Bruce Wayne pretty much own the Daily Planet and everything else Superman does? The film could be about the two each doing their own thing, finding out about one another, and using the combination of Superman's kryptonian strength and Batman's bottomless funding and technology to combat some greater enemy? And while Superman is off kicking alien ass, Batman could be kicking the ass of said alien's human-level minions?

Or Batman could get a massive technology buff which puts him on the level of Superman. Kind of like Ironman and Thor.
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:00 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I gotta be honest, I'm not a fan of this news. I loved the new Batman movies. I really liked Man of Steel even though I generally don't like Superman.

But I watch Batman and Superman expecting different things. With Batman I'm not in it to see Superpowers, I'm in it to see a man and his brain and technology, even if it more than ocassionally enters the realm of science fiction.

So combining the two? Eh... I know it's canon per the DC Universe, but still....
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:03 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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How do you feel about Ironman, then? And The Avengers? Same principle, imo
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:37 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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EverPhoenix wrote:
How do you feel about Ironman, then? And The Avengers? Same principle, imo


Have seen neither (well I saw Ironman, but I'm not a fan). Really, Batman is the only "superhero" that I really like, and he's by far the least interesting thing in it.
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Postinferiare Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:37 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I know that this is supposed to be the start of the League and all, but I think they could have done better. DC is doing their own version of the Avengers, but starting it with... just Batman and Superman. :/ They sort of need to introduce the rest of the League before they jump into LOOK LOOK WE'RE LIKE MARVEL!!! tbh
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PostSoulBlazerFan Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:10 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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inferiare wrote:
I know that this is supposed to be the start of the League and all, but I think they could have done better. DC is doing their own version of the Avengers, but starting it with... just Batman and Superman. :/ They sort of need to introduce the rest of the League before they jump into LOOK LOOK WE'RE LIKE MARVEL!!! tbh


I think their thinking is something like this: they are years behind Marvel. They will never be able to catch up. Heck, Batman/Suoerman will likely release t he same year as Avengers: Age of Ultron.

They really don't have time to cross their fingers and hope a lower tier character can have a successful movie, or, more likely, another Green Lantern.

Pairing their two most successful characters together is the only thing that makes sense. Then again, it might not even happen, knowing how DC works with never finishing projects, so only time will tell.
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Postpsychokind Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:17 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Jason Tandro wrote:
I gotta be honest, I'm not a fan of this news. I loved the new Batman movies. I really liked Man of Steel even though I generally don't like Superman.

But I watch Batman and Superman expecting different things. With Batman I'm not in it to see Superpowers, I'm in it to see a man and his brain and technology, even if it more than ocassionally enters the realm of science fiction.

So combining the two? Eh... I know it's canon per the DC Universe, but still....


i totally agree with jason, although i have seen avengers and that movie was awesome and worked well.

thing is, with supermam being the ultimate hero it's always hard to combine him with somebody else. he's so powerful it's hard to imagine he would need help from another hero (especially human batman) if they don't pull the boring kryptonite trigger again.

if you think seriously about the DC universe, superman could've flied to "the dark knight rises"'s gotham, kill bane and throw the bomb into space in a matter of minutes. you should watch the newer cartoon batman where he finds out who superman is (and vice versa). it's just ridiculous.
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:12 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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psychokind wrote:
Jason Tandro wrote:
I gotta be honest, I'm not a fan of this news. I loved the new Batman movies. I really liked Man of Steel even though I generally don't like Superman.

But I watch Batman and Superman expecting different things. With Batman I'm not in it to see Superpowers, I'm in it to see a man and his brain and technology, even if it more than ocassionally enters the realm of science fiction.

So combining the two? Eh... I know it's canon per the DC Universe, but still....


i totally agree with jason, although i have seen avengers and that movie was awesome and worked well.

thing is, with supermam being the ultimate hero it's always hard to combine him with somebody else. he's so powerful it's hard to imagine he would need help from another hero (especially human batman) if they don't pull the boring kryptonite trigger again.

if you think seriously about the DC universe, superman could've flied to "the dark knight rises"'s gotham, kill bane and throw the bomb into space in a matter of minutes. you should watch the newer cartoon batman where he finds out who superman is (and vice versa). it's just ridiculous.


They just need to give Batman an uber technology boost so that he isn't completely irrelevant.
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Postpsychokind Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:36 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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EverPhoenix wrote:
psychokind wrote:
Jason Tandro wrote:
I gotta be honest, I'm not a fan of this news. I loved the new Batman movies. I really liked Man of Steel even though I generally don't like Superman.

But I watch Batman and Superman expecting different things. With Batman I'm not in it to see Superpowers, I'm in it to see a man and his brain and technology, even if it more than ocassionally enters the realm of science fiction.

So combining the two? Eh... I know it's canon per the DC Universe, but still....


i totally agree with jason, although i have seen avengers and that movie was awesome and worked well.

thing is, with supermam being the ultimate hero it's always hard to combine him with somebody else. he's so powerful it's hard to imagine he would need help from another hero (especially human batman) if they don't pull the boring kryptonite trigger again.

if you think seriously about the DC universe, superman could've flied to "the dark knight rises"'s gotham, kill bane and throw the bomb into space in a matter of minutes. you should watch the newer cartoon batman where he finds out who superman is (and vice versa). it's just ridiculous.


They just need to give Batman an uber technology boost so that he isn't completely irrelevant.


in the animated series they give him a huge fighting suit, which is totally retarded. there is no technology that is as strong as superman - if there was he wouldn't be superman
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Postgeekgirl101 Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:44 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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If it's done by Marvel they need to get the old producer back. The one they had doing Iron Man 3 made a complete balls out of it. Most the movie was about Stark trying to fix his armor, then at the end we find out he has an army of like 100 iron man droids that he can jump into at any point. What was the whole point then in him spending days trying to fix his first outfit? And the last few minutes of the film were just contradictory and left me thinking "wtf?"
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:35 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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geekgirl101 wrote:
If it's done by Marvel they need to get the old producer back. The one they had doing Iron Man 3 made a complete balls out of it. Most the movie was about Stark trying to fix his armor, then at the end we find out he has an army of like 100 iron man droids that he can jump into at any point. What was the whole point then in him spending days trying to fix his first outfit? And the last few minutes of the film were just contradictory and left me thinking "wtf?"


Yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan of Iron Man 3. The thing that bothered me most was the absurdity of the villain's powers, and how he finally meets his doom. Mega-suit exploding on him? No problem. Pissed off Pepper Potts? GG.
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Postpsychokind Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:34 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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EverPhoenix wrote:
geekgirl101 wrote:
If it's done by Marvel they need to get the old producer back. The one they had doing Iron Man 3 made a complete balls out of it. Most the movie was about Stark trying to fix his armor, then at the end we find out he has an army of like 100 iron man droids that he can jump into at any point. What was the whole point then in him spending days trying to fix his first outfit? And the last few minutes of the film were just contradictory and left me thinking "wtf?"


Yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan of Iron Man 3. The thing that bothered me most was the absurdity of the villain's powers, and how he finally meets his doom. Mega-suit exploding on him? No problem. Pissed off Pepper Potts? GG.


sums it up perfectly
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