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Mystery about 2 endings

 
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blackdrake
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Postblackdrake Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:12 pm   Post subject: Mystery about 2 endings Reply with quote

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Hello,

I play Terranigma for many years and was an important part of my childhood. I also started to analyze the ROM and developed some extraction tools for it.

One question really bothers me since very long: Are there 2 endings or not? Is this rumor true?

I searched the internet and YouTube for hours and read many different opinions. But the mystery was never "busted" or "confirmed" - most forum topics just became inactive.

I collected some arguments about what I have heared/read in forums whether if the rumor about a secret ending is true or not.

1. In the official Nintendo guide of Terranigma (I own the German version), at the page which contains the town expansion description, there is written that "expansion of the towns will be very important for the end of the game"! This is a VERY strong argument for me. Why should Nintendo write something which is not true?

2. In a forum a person writes that the end bosses are stronger or weaker if the towns are expanded or not. I do not know if this is true. He also writes that if the dragon is strong, the guy is weak and vice versa. Is it possible that the town expansion modifies the end bosses LP ? If this is true, it might be a misunderstanding about "different ending". I heared that "if you don't expand the towns, it will be harder for Ark to fight against the gods".

3. Somebody wrote that he believes that there is a "regular ending" and an "extended ending", and that we all know the extended ending. The regular ending only comes if you don't expand the towns and/or not resurrect Mu and Polynesia. I have seen a 4 hour Speedrun of Terranigma at YouTube https://www . youtube. com/watch?v=npgzNK1mPPQ . I noticed that this guy did not resurrect Mu and Polynesia. I don't know if he has expanded the towns, but I don't think so, since it is a speedrun. The ending looks normal, so I don't think that there can be a "regular ending" if you didn't expand the towns.

4. The pages http//www . terraearth. com/terranigma/rumors/ and http//shrines.rpgclassics. com/snes/terranigma/rumors.shtml contains many rumors, but the rumor about the secret ending is not described.

5. In the Japanese version of the game, there exists 1 more Magirock. I did not play the Japanese version of the game to verify if there could be an extended ending if you beat the game 100% (all towns expanded, all magirocks).

6. I know that the translated versions need additional space for translation. I know that the message tables are compressed by using most used words in a lookup-table. Also graphics are compressed. In the Japanese version there was more free space for the Quiz and the Debug menu . In the German version the Quiz is removed and the Debug menu is broken / crashes the game. Theory: Is it possible that the translated versions don't have 2 endings because the developers had a ROM-space-problem?

7. Another theory: At some point in the game you will be asked if you love underword Melina or overworld Melina. Could it be possible that this decision influences the ending? Maybe you see the Melina you love. I have seen the ending very often but I NEVER paid attention to the hair color Surprised

8. I heared the argument that the text dump does not contain texts which could be specific to an extended ending. I did not yet read the complete text dump, but I assume that it is true. But I don't think that this is an argument against the 2-ending-theory. A different ending could be done as script-only, e.g. showing a scene or not. Or at the ending there could be a different Melina. Or the Melina dialog could be skipped in a shortened ending, etc.

9. It would be VERY helpful if a script of the ending could be disassembled. Only this way we know if there is any trigger for a secret ending or skipping of scenes. I looked at "TerraCraft", but the script editor seems not to be what I expected. Or I am at the wrong offset. I looked at offset 0x17B8D6 ("The ending"), but there are only a few bytes. :-s I have never disassembled a SNES ROM, but I did some x86 assembler and disassembling of C++ programs. If somebody could give me a hint how I can disassemble the end of the game (to reveal some triggers), I would be very happy. (Side question: Do you know a good SNES disassembler?)

10. www .angelfire. com /alt/terranigmasite/terrasecrets.html writes that there is one town (Litz) that will not become a gray fully expanded town. It is a great undiscovered rumor. Maybe nobody have seen the secret ending because all people did not had a real 100% result?

I would be very happy to hear from you and maybe more theories. I hope that finally we could find a way to whether find out if this rumor about 2 endings is true or not.

Thank you very much!


[Changed hyperlinks due to the 10-posts limitation]
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psychokind
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Postpsychokind Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:25 pm   Post subject: Re: Mystery about 2 endings Reply with quote

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blackdrake wrote:


1. In the official Nintendo guide of Terranigma (I own the German version), at the page which contains the town expansion description, there is written that "expansion of the towns will be very important for the end of the game"! This is a VERY strong argument for me. Why should Nintendo write something which is not true?


Expanded all the towns to the max, and there's no different ending to when you don't.

Quote:
2. In a forum a person writes that the end bosses are stronger or weaker if the towns are expanded or not. I do not know if this is true. He also writes that if the dragon is strong, the guy is weak and vice versa. Is it possible that the town expansion modifies the end bosses LP ? If this is true, it might be a misunderstanding about "different ending". I heared that "if you don't expand the towns, it will be harder for Ark to fight against the gods".


I never heard about that, so I can't confirm or dismantle it. actually a interesting thing to check for on my next run.

Quote:
3. Somebody wrote that he believes that there is a "regular ending" and an "extended ending", and that we all know the extended ending. The regular ending only comes if you don't expand the towns and/or not resurrect Mu and Polynesia. I have seen a 4 hour Speedrun of Terranigma at YouTube https://www . youtube. com/watch?v=npgzNK1mPPQ . I noticed that this guy did not resurrect Mu and Polynesia. I don't know if he has expanded the towns, but I don't think so, since it is a speedrun. The ending looks normal, so I don't think that there can be a "regular ending" if you didn't expand the towns.


there should be no difference, I also done it with mu/polynesia and without and I can't remember any difference.

Quote:
5. In the Japanese version of the game, there exists 1 more Magirock. I did not play the Japanese version of the game to verify if there could be an extended ending if you beat the game 100% (all towns expanded, all magirocks).


verified, no different ending.

Quote:
6. I know that the translated versions need additional space for translation. I know that the message tables are compressed by using most used words in a lookup-table. Also graphics are compressed. In the Japanese version there was more free space for the Quiz and the Debug menu . In the German version the Quiz is removed and the Debug menu is broken / crashes the game. Theory: Is it possible that the translated versions don't have 2 endings because the developers had a ROM-space-problem?


see 6.

Quote:
7. Another theory: At some point in the game you will be asked if you love underword Melina or overworld Melina. Could it be possible that this decision influences the ending? Maybe you see the Melina you love. I have seen the ending very often but I NEVER paid attention to the hair color Surprised


verified, no different ending

Quote:
8. I heared the argument that the text dump does not contain texts which could be specific to an extended ending. I did not yet read the complete text dump, but I assume that it is true. But I don't think that this is an argument against the 2-ending-theory. A different ending could be done as script-only, e.g. showing a scene or not. Or at the ending there could be a different Melina. Or the Melina dialog could be skipped in a shortened ending, etc.


didn't check that out yet, we should have the text dump around I think...

Quote:
9. It would be VERY helpful if a script of the ending could be disassembled. Only this way we know if there is any trigger for a secret ending or skipping of scenes. I looked at "TerraCraft", but the script editor seems not to be what I expected. Or I am at the wrong offset. I looked at offset 0x17B8D6 ("The ending"), but there are only a few bytes. :-s I have never disassembled a SNES ROM, but I did some x86 assembler and disassembling of C++ programs. If somebody could give me a hint how I can disassemble the end of the game (to reveal some triggers), I would be very happy. (Side question: Do you know a good SNES disassembler?)


dunno...

Quote:
10. www .angelfire. com /alt/terranigmasite/terrasecrets.html writes that there is one town (Litz) that will not become a gray fully expanded town. It is a great undiscovered rumor. Maybe nobody have seen the secret ending because all people did not had a real 100% result?


Litz can NOT be expanded a 2nd time. that's an old rumor.
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:59 am   Post subject: Re: Mystery about 2 endings Reply with quote

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blackdrake wrote:

1. In the official Nintendo guide of Terranigma (I own the German version), at the page which contains the town expansion description, there is written that "expansion of the towns will be very important for the end of the game"! This is a VERY strong argument for me. Why should Nintendo write something which is not true?


This is to some extent true. If you expand the towns, you do unlock more "story" - the 9 letters, and some small side stories. You also get shops which will let you buy more advanced armour and weapons. You can also only get a couple of the special (center area) weapons and armour from fully expanded towns.

Quote:

2. In a forum a person writes that the end bosses are stronger or weaker if the towns are expanded or not. I do not know if this is true. He also writes that if the dragon is strong, the guy is weak and vice versa. Is it possible that the town expansion modifies the end bosses LP ? If this is true, it might be a misunderstanding about "different ending". I heared that "if you don't expand the towns, it will be harder for Ark to fight against the gods".


Pretty sure the HP values don't change, regardless of what you do. Obviously, the stronger you are, the harder you hit, and the boss HP might seem lower.

Quote:

3. Somebody wrote that he believes that there is a "regular ending" and an "extended ending", and that we all know the extended ending. The regular ending only comes if you don't expand the towns and/or not resurrect Mu and Polynesia. I have seen a 4 hour Speedrun of Terranigma at YouTube https://www . youtube. com/watch?v=npgzNK1mPPQ . I noticed that this guy did not resurrect Mu and Polynesia. I don't know if he has expanded the towns, but I don't think so, since it is a speedrun. The ending looks normal, so I don't think that there can be a "regular ending" if you didn't expand the towns.


Don't think expanding the towns comes into it, but maybe they meant the epilogue at the end with Elle in Storkolm?

Quote:

4. The pages http//www . terraearth. com/terranigma/rumors/ and http//shrines.rpgclassics. com/snes/terranigma/rumors.shtml contains many rumors, but the rumor about the secret ending is not described.

I'd never heard it before.

Quote:

5. In the Japanese version of the game, there exists 1 more Magirock. I did not play the Japanese version of the game to verify if there could be an extended ending if you beat the game 100% (all towns expanded, all magirocks).


Probably, as you mentioned, memory concerns. However, I don't think 100%ing the game gets you anything other than a sense of accomplishment.

Quote:

6. I know that the translated versions need additional space for translation. I know that the message tables are compressed by using most used words in a lookup-table. Also graphics are compressed. In the Japanese version there was more free space for the Quiz and the Debug menu . In the German version the Quiz is removed and the Debug menu is broken / crashes the game. Theory: Is it possible that the translated versions don't have 2 endings because the developers had a ROM-space-problem?


If they didn't have enough space for language, then they wouldnt have been able to fit an alternate ending...

Quote:

7. Another theory: At some point in the game you will be asked if you love underword Melina or overworld Melina. Could it be possible that this decision influences the ending? Maybe you see the Melina you love. I have seen the ending very often but I NEVER paid attention to the hair color Surprised


It's always the surface Elle / Melina in the ending.

Quote:

8. I heared the argument that the text dump does not contain texts which could be specific to an extended ending. I did not yet read the complete text dump, but I assume that it is true. But I don't think that this is an argument against the 2-ending-theory. A different ending could be done as script-only, e.g. showing a scene or not. Or at the ending there could be a different Melina. Or the Melina dialog could be skipped in a shortened ending, etc.


You might find stuff that you cant get to through the game. It doesn't mean there's hidden stuff, but then it doesn't mean there isn't either.

Quote:

9. It would be VERY helpful if a script of the ending could be disassembled. Only this way we know if there is any trigger for a secret ending or skipping of scenes. I looked at "TerraCraft", but the script editor seems not to be what I expected. Or I am at the wrong offset. I looked at offset 0x17B8D6 ("The ending"), but there are only a few bytes. :-s I have never disassembled a SNES ROM, but I did some x86 assembler and disassembling of C++ programs. If somebody could give me a hint how I can disassemble the end of the game (to reveal some triggers), I would be very happy. (Side question: Do you know a good SNES disassembler?)


From what I can gather about cartridge programming, it's pointers to pointers and other messed up stuff. And I don't know any tools that are Terranigma-specific

Quote:

10. www .angelfire. com /alt/terranigmasite/terrasecrets.html writes that there is one town (Litz) that will not become a gray fully expanded town. It is a great undiscovered rumor. Maybe nobody have seen the secret ending because all people did not had a real 100% result?


I'm pretty sure it only has one expansion.


Sorry if some of my answers are a bit patchy. And it's nice to have new people around here, welcome!
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blackdrake
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Postblackdrake Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:12 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Thanks for your answers and opinions Smile mh so it is likely that there is no secret ending. but i keep searching. When i have more time i might try to analyze the rom based on tge work of crediar.
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Heikki
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PostHeikki Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:12 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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blackdrake wrote:
Thanks for your answers and opinions Smile mh so it is likely that there is no secret ending. but i keep searching. When i have more time i might try to analyze the rom based on tge work of crediar.


Have you found out anything new?
On GameFAQs the people who speak Japanese and read though Japanese fan sites say it's just an urban legend even there.
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