The confessions of an agnostic

[Manibrandr System]

If you haven't gotten the memo, I'm no longer a christian. I'm agnostic, I believe (keyword : believe) that there's some deity floating around, watching us from outside the bounds of the universe like a kid watching an ant farm or a flea circus from outside a glass box. However, I don't believe in any religous doctrine written about said deity, there's lots of contradictions in every religous text and Christianity and the Bible is no exception. I find the idea of a perfect utopia to be logically impossible once you enter humans into the equation, even more so when people are driven to throw everything in the world away just for this religous promise that has no guarantee of happening. On the other side of the coin, the idea of hell is ridiculous, what just and fair deity would pay back petty crimes with eternal torment of heaven can't be earned the same way? Whenever I think about it, it stuck me as a childish fantasy used as a comfort blanket for those too cowardly to find their own way in life.

[Jason Tandro]

Well don't worry. I believe that God exists, but I don't believe you're instantly gonna burn in hell. I'm not that naive. Some christians on the other hand...

Yeah, the way they act it's amazing there aren't more agnostics out there

[Hammerit]

Jason Tandro wrote:

Some christians on the other hand...

... should burn in hell!

you're damn right 'bout that .

I'm member of an order which has ideals quite similiar to the ones of the freemasonry ppl.

Why I dun like conservative catholics? um ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition ... that's the reason! They burned our places down and killed our brethren for centuries just because we had our own faith ... if that's no reason to burn in hell.

[Jason Tandro]

well we could debate religion til the cows come home, but i think we can all agree on three points:

1) If there is a god, he is more concerned with the content of your character than which invisible man you pray to (or how you pray)

2) People believe that which they find most comforting, not that which they find most logical. (That is a Jason Tandro original quote)

3) Air is good.

[Hammerit]

Jason Tandro wrote:

3) Air is good.

I mean ... I dun like air ... but that's subjective ^^

[Manibrandr System]

Don't get me wrong, religion for some people can be good if used as an inspirational piece of text. However, I see more and more people throwing the chance to improve the world away just for the worship of a deity, and that is saddening. That is not what I think of when someone says inspirational.

Also, Jason has very good points. There's lots of religous debates in which the convicted uses their sense of comfort instead of logic to try and back up their points.

[SoulBlazerFan]

I have to believe there is a Heaven and Hell... and just to say there's no Hell because of "petty crimes" is kind of leaving out other crimes. What about guys like, Jack the Ripper? The Zodiac? Ted Bundy? Charles Manson? Ed Gein? What about all the psychotic, homicidal people out there who have no remorse for their crimes?

I may be a horror fan, but real crimes sicken me... I have to believe that that good and evil have a seperate place for their final destinations, and I have to believe everyone makes their own choices because they were given free will to do so. How many people here can say they have committed a crime, no matter how small or big... and felt no remorse afterwards?

And yeah, I agree, there is a alot of bullshit in religion. We shouldn't follow the teachings of man, we should be following the teachings of God. I always thought it was like this; learn from the past (Old Testament) and then learn how to live for good (New Testament). God had said it himself; we are all surrounded by temptation and sin. But for those of us who truly want forgiveness, we shall find it in Him.

I hate religious debate as much as the next guy. My sisters friends with a Satanist, my other sisters friends with a Wiccan, but I'm not about to go around telling them what they believe is wrong. That'd just be stupid and ignorant. Yeah, I don't feel all too comfortable about it, but then if I had said anything, it would be hypocritical. Why? I believe in God, and I believe in free will. No one should decide what we can and can't do.

[Manibrandr System]

I understand where you're coming from, however, as far as science goes, I'd believe that after we die, we're gone for good unless cloning can bring us back.

My thoughts on this is that instead of revelling on the idea of an afterlife of retribution for sins, I feel that it's better to work for a better crime-solving and justice system.

Utopia may be impossible here on Earth, but it can damn well be close to it if everyone works towards it.

[Jason Tandro]

I think the earth would be at peace if more of us joined Terra Earth.

[Manibrandr System]

Oh yes! I agree, it woud rawk if the whole world is a tight-knit community like us.

[Jason Tandro]

we're the utopia. who needs heaven?

but one thing i will point out is that i try to avoid religion sites, because no one has nailed it yet and things get sooo argumentative. it's not worth it.

[Hammerit]

I personally have nothing against religions in general. I just don't believe that someone created us. I just don't believe that someone watches our every steps or that some heavengly might will one day struck all sinners down and lead all believers to a holy place.

Our order is a closed society. There may not be many of us, but that is no problem as long as we follow the path of rightiousness. We don't worship a God, we worship ourselves as we are the ones granted with the power to make everything reality. All the order wants of us is that we never lose the faith in our own power. To the Order Money is unimportant so there is no taxes or fees like in many religions and sects that are used to build any temples or find new members. All that are willing to join us are welcome as long as they follow the path of rightiousness, but they have to find their own way into the order. This is the only trial for those willing to join us, but a bigger obstacle than most ppl actually think.

[Manibrandr System]

Jason Tandro wrote:

we're the utopia. who needs heaven? but one thing i will point out is that i try to avoid religion sites, because no one has nailed it yet and things get sooo argumentative. it's not worth it.

Oh yes, religion and politics are the biggest flamewar-generating topics to most of the internet. Which is why I am sharing this with you here.

Hammerit : Sounds like a dream come true.

[Hammerit]

Joan-Michele wrote:

Hammerit : Sounds like a dream come true.

Did I miss something? lol

Joan-Michele wrote:

Oh yes, religion and politics are the biggest flamewar-generating topics to most of the internet. Which is why I am sharing this with you here.

Those topics easily heat up and even cripple lots of forums. I allways used them to raise my posting counter in the past .

[Manibrandr System]

Oh yes, I remember doing that too.