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Emeth
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PostEmeth Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:14 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Further Explanation:

Dark Gaia clearly sends Dark Elle for a reason. Part of the reason we both seem to agree upon, Dark Ark would not have the motivation to kill Dark Elle if able to fight. However, if Dark Elle is unwilling to kill Dark Ark there is no point to sending her, as you point out, otherwise the situation would be such that no one would do any killing and Ark (Reborn at the time) would not be impeded. If this were the situation Dark Gaia would send someone that actually would attempt to kill Dark Ark/Reborn Ark (unclear if Dark Gaia knows what version of Ark exists at the time) regardless of whether or not that person would succeed because an unwilling Dark Elle would certainly fail.

Side Note: I have no doubt that a citizen of Crysta would follow any order by the Elder to the letter, so each citizen is clearly an option to be sent to kill Ark, but Dark Elle was sent so Dark Gaia clearly believed that she was the best candidate.

Thus Dark Gaia must know something about the character of Dark Elle that we do not initially perceive. In my opinion, the game makes it rather clear that Dark Elle will kill Reborn Ark (in baby form). Her acknowledgement of the baby as Ark leads to the conclusion that love alone, although providing hesitation, will not stop her from actually committing the action; Light Elle's arrival does that.

So, as I hypothesized in my initial analysis of Dark Elle, she must have some utilitarian mindset. The Elder has told her that she must kill an individual that is a threat to Crysta, so for her it is the lives of the Elder, herself and all other citizens of Crysta vs. the life of this one individual. The fact that even after coming to the conclusion that the person she needs to kill is her love, Ark, she still plans to carry out the action demonstrates this utilitarianism. Hence, this is probably why Dark Gaia sent Dark Elle, it was confident that Dark Elle would be able to kill Ark for the good of Crysta as a whole, despite her love for him, and it also suspected that Ark would not be able to kill Dark Elle in defense.

More than likely I would reason that Dark Elle walks away from killing Reborn Ark after the growth spurt because Dark Yomi informs both of them that the Elder is actually Dark Gaia/the Devil. Such a realization could realign her utilitarian beliefs as she is probably less certain that killing Ark now will actually save Crysta or saving Crysta is now not as important because the Elder has been deceiving her this entire time. I believe that her lack of knowledge regarding Dark Gaia is irrelevant. She sacrifices herself for Ark probably because she realizes how important Ark is over herself and is not sure about how safe Crysta will be now if she lets him die. Dark Yomi even refers to Reborn Ark as the Hero in the presence of Dark Elle. Unfortunately Dark Elle is interrupted before giving her official reason.

Overall I cannot fully accept that Dark Elle would not kill Dark Ark in a more recognizable form. Although I mentioned love as a possibility, I do not believe the difference between baby Ark and full grown Ark is really that significant for Dark Elle because Ark should be Ark to her if she really loves him and she should not kill him regardless of age or appearance. But she clearly is willing to go through with killing baby Reborn Ark, so love is obviously not strong enough. I referred to the baby form as a rational that Dark Elle would have a higher probability of killing Ark in that form vs. a more adult form, but not as a greater motivating force.

There is the theory that Dark Elle was not only the best option, but the only option as well. Dark Ark and possibly Dark Elle are special. Perhaps no other Crystain could exist on the surface world. Once reaching the surface world their Crystal Blue bodies would simply cease to exist. Dark Ark and Dark Elle are constructed somewhat differently which allows them to survive, similar to Magirock, on the surface. Granted there is no way to know if this is indeed true because Dark Ark and Dark Elle are the only two Crystain that ever seem to go to the surface world. However, this theory may have some credence when Dark Gaia (I assume) instructs Dark Elle to kill the babe because it is powerless. If baby Ark was indeed powerless then why not send someone else if Dark Gaia had reservations about Dark Elle's ability to kill Ark, so it must have been confident that Dark Elle would succeed.

As stated in my above analysis I never understood the logic Dark Yomi relied upon when waiting to kill Dark Ark. If Dark Yomi had killed Dark Ark when it was supposed to there does not appear to be a circumstance that would release "The Golden Child" unless Dark Gaia constructed another Dark Ark, which it would not do. No one else seems to be able to find the Starstones or would be able to fuse with "The Golden Child". "The Golden Child" will probably exist regardless of Dark Ark, but Dark Ark appears to be the only candidate that can unseal "The Golden Child" and possibly fuse with him. So I guess Dark Yomi just outsmarted itself.
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PostAngelus-Mortis Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:23 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Emeth wrote:
Further Explanation:

Dark Gaia clearly sends Dark Elle for a reason. Part of the reason we both seem to agree upon, Dark Ark would not have the motivation to kill Dark Elle if able to fight. However, if Dark Elle is unwilling to kill Dark Ark there is no point to sending her, as you point out, otherwise the situation would be such that no one would do any killing and Ark (Reborn at the time) would not be impeded. If this were the situation Dark Gaia would send someone that actually would attempt to kill Dark Ark/Reborn Ark (unclear if Dark Gaia knows what version of Ark exists at the time) regardless of whether or not that person would succeed because an unwilling Dark Elle would certainly fail.

Side Note: I have no doubt that a citizen of Crysta would follow any order by the Elder to the letter, so each citizen is clearly an option to be sent to kill Ark, but Dark Elle was sent so Dark Gaia clearly believed that she was the best candidate.


So perhaps Dark Gaia was absolutely sure that Dark Elle would kill Ark even if she knew it was him, even though she didn't? It's entirely possible for him to be wrong about Elle. Afterall, he was wrong about Dark Yomi.

Quote:

Thus Dark Gaia must know something about the character of Dark Elle that we do not initially perceive. In my opinion, the game makes it rather clear that Dark Elle will kill Reborn Ark (in baby form). Her acknowledgement of the baby as Ark leads to the conclusion that love alone, although providing hesitation, will not stop her from actually committing the action; Light Elle's arrival does that.

So, as I hypothesized in my initial analysis of Dark Elle, she must have some utilitarian mindset. The Elder has told her that she must kill an individual that is a threat to Crysta, so for her it is the lives of the Elder, herself and all other citizens of Crysta vs. the life of this one individual. The fact that even after coming to the conclusion that the person she needs to kill is her love, Ark, she still plans to carry out the action demonstrates this utilitarianism. Hence, this is probably why Dark Gaia sent Dark Elle, it was confident that Dark Elle would be able to kill Ark for the good of Crysta as a whole, despite her love for him, and it also suspected that Ark would not be able to kill Dark Elle in defense.


Can we really be sure? Light Elle intercepts Dark Elle before she is actually able to do anything to baby Ark. At that point, she was either going to kill Ark and made up her mind, or she was still deciding whether or not she wanted to kill Ark. In my opinion though, the only way to know whether or not she would make the decision to kill Ark would be if she actually did it. We don't actually know much about her thoughts; we only hear about what she says after Light Elle intercepts and Dark Yomi takes action.

Quote:

More than likely I would reason that Dark Elle walks away from killing Reborn Ark after the growth spurt because Dark Yomi informs both of them that the Elder is actually Dark Gaia/the Devil. Such a realization could realign her utilitarian beliefs as she is probably less certain that killing Ark now will actually save Crysta or saving Crysta is now not as important because the Elder has been deceiving her this entire time. I believe that her lack of knowledge regarding Dark Gaia is irrelevant. She sacrifices herself for Ark probably because she realizes how important Ark is over herself and is not sure about how safe Crysta will be now if she lets him die. Dark Yomi even refers to Reborn Ark as the Hero in the presence of Dark Elle. Unfortunately Dark Elle is interrupted before giving her official reason.


This could only be true if Dark Gaia's beliefs about Elle's character were true, but apparently, he doesn't accurately predict what either Dark Elle or Dark Yomi do. If Dark Gaia's predictions on Dark Elle's character are wrong, it's still possible that Dark Elle's hesitation and her final decision could have been influenced by her love for Ark.

Quote:

Overall I cannot fully accept that Dark Elle would not kill Dark Ark in a more recognizable form. Although I mentioned love as a possibility, I do not believe the difference between baby Ark and full grown Ark is really that significant for Dark Elle because Ark should be Ark to her if she really loves him and she should not kill him regardless of age or appearance. But she clearly is willing to go through with killing baby Reborn Ark, so love is obviously not strong enough. I referred to the baby form as a rational that Dark Elle would have a higher probability of killing Ark in that form vs. a more adult form, but not as a greater motivating force.


You also mentioned something in one of your previous analyses about the possibility of Elle being Dark Gaia in the interpretation of the events in Astarica, and how Elle was complaining about how pitiful humans were. Apparently, it seems that she (or rather, Elle as a "god of death") neglected the potential effect of love, something which Roy and Fyla display before they disappear. It's entirely possible that Dark Gaia is also making the same mistake of neglecting the effect of love, which could very well have hindered his plans and made Dark Elle do what she did. Even if you don't believe that love would have been enough to stop Dark Elle, it was good enough to allow Light Elle to interfere and for Dark Elle to change her mind.

Quote:

There is the theory that Dark Elle was not only the best option, but the only option as well. Dark Ark and possibly Dark Elle are special. Perhaps no other Crystain could exist on the surface world. Once reaching the surface world their Crystal Blue bodies would simply cease to exist. Dark Ark and Dark Elle are constructed somewhat differently which allows them to survive, similar to Magirock, on the surface. Granted there is no way to know if this is indeed true because Dark Ark and Dark Elle are the only two Crystain that ever seem to go to the surface world. However, this theory may have some credence when Dark Gaia (I assume) instructs Dark Elle to kill the babe because it is powerless. If baby Ark was indeed powerless then why not send someone else if Dark Gaia had reservations about Dark Elle's ability to kill Ark, so it must have been confident that Dark Elle would succeed.


I'd like to believe there was a good reason why Dark Gaia sent Dark Elle to kill baby Ark, but I guess I'm not really seeing it. Besides Dark Gaia mispredicting Dark Elle's character, and therefore, her capacity to kill a baby Ark. Or maybe I'm being entirely too logical, and Dark Gaia is somewhat...human in personality.

Quote:

As stated in my above analysis I never understood the logic Dark Yomi relied upon when waiting to kill Dark Ark. If Dark Yomi had killed Dark Ark when it was supposed to there does not appear to be a circumstance that would release "The Golden Child" unless Dark Gaia constructed another Dark Ark, which it would not do. No one else seems to be able to find the Starstones or would be able to fuse with "The Golden Child". "The Golden Child" will probably exist regardless of Dark Ark, but Dark Ark appears to be the only candidate that can unseal "The Golden Child" and possibly fuse with him. So I guess Dark Yomi just outsmarted itself.


The only explanation I can think of for that would be if he were paranoid about either Arks existing, and worried about the possibility of Light Ark doing something on his own. It probably wouldn't happen, as you may have analyzed, and while Dark Yomi certainly is one of the more intellectual characters in the game, I don't suppose he's without his flaws.
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Emeth
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PostEmeth Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:25 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Forgive any typos or misstatements as I have not had that much time on my hands and am posting this rather hastily.

Putting a close to a lingering issue:

Angelus-Mortis: [[In my opinion though, the only way to know whether or not she would make the decision to kill Ark would be if she actually did it.]]

If this is your position there is no real reason to continue the discussion because Dark Elle never reached a final decision due to Light Elle's interference, so in your eyes no conclusion can be effectively drawn regarding this issue. This scenario includes your conclusion about her love being powerful enough to prevent her from killing Ark. With this mindset no conclusion can be viewed as more correct or more incorrect than any other.

Of course it is entirely possible for Dark Gaia to incorrectly assess the character of Dark Elle, the problem is it is not very probable and there is no direct evidence at all in the game that can used to support that position. One could also argue that Dark Gaia's incorrect assessment of Dark Yomi was more overreaction than actual misjudgment because Dark Yomi still plans to kill Ark, just as Reborn Ark not Dark Ark. Overall I do not believe the position that Dark Elle did not kill Ark because she loved him can be supported apart from any other conclusion and my previous post documents why I do not think love stopped her from attacking adult Reborn Ark.

However, as mentioned I believe there is evidence to reasonably conclude that she will kill Ark as the final words Dark Elle says before Light Elle arrives are "Ark… I'm sorry." Now I cannot imagine the remainder of that statement to be 'but I cannot kill you' or something similarly positive. Typically when someone apologizes to someone else in that way something bad is going to happen. If she was still considering whether or not to kill him I suspect there would have been only silence like before. Those three words dramatically reduce the probability that love would have in the end prevented her from going through with it.


Moving on there is still a plethora of information and debatable points that have yet to be addressed and explored, in addition to two new subjects in this post, so have at it.

Who is the Guardian?

Although the Guardian is a rather mysterious entity with little back story there are certain elements to its role and existence that can be discussed. First, the Guardian is probably a devotee of Dark Gaia. Without a back story it seems better to attack this association from who the Guardian is not associated with, Light Gaia or as a neutral entity. It is difficult to associate Light Gaia and the Guardian because it appears that no entities that have association with Light Gaia can exist when Light Gaia is sealed and Dark Ark meets the Guardian while the surface world and for all intensive purposes Light Gaia is sealed.

However, although that fact alone seems to divorce the Guardian from Light Gaia digging deeper, the Guardian's role as the protector of the 5 towers that house the surface world when sealed does not seem to mesh well with Light Gaia. There does not appear to be an initial reason why Light Gaia would protect its sealing grounds when no negative consequences can occur on them with the available knowledge. With regards to the towers there only appears to be two options sealing and unsealing, but no means for destruction.

Having a protector relates back to the position of need vs. strength. Does Light Gaia care about the circumstances of itself and the surface world being unsealed? If it does then having a Guardian of some sorts may make sense, the surface world and Light Gaia should only be unsealed under the proper circumstances; however, if it does not then having a Guardian makes no sense. Light Gaia cannot know nor control the intentions of the individual that breaks the seal, so gauging the individual's strength is meaningless and it has no real control over the circumstances if the individual is strong enough to overcome the Guardian's defenses.

With no genuine control I suspect Light Gaia would prefer to be released as much as possible rather than under specific circumstances, so there would be little reason for the Guardian to be an associate of Light Gaia. However, Dark Gaia has more control over the intentions and circumstances of the individual that unseals the surface world because of its influence on entities in the underworld where the towers exist. This is especially true if it had an entity like the Guardian as an ally.

Dissociating the Guardian from Light Gaia, assume that the Guardian is an independent or neutral entity. It exists to keep the surface world sealed until an entity strong enough to unseal and guide the development of the world arises in order to ensure a strong surface world to rival the strength of the underworld. Under these circumstances the Guardian does not work directly with Dark Gaia, but appears to assist Dark Gaia indirectly. The troubling statement with regarding the Guardian as an independent entity is when it states, "Ark. You have done well to overcome your challenges. Your real journey begins today. You shall return to the Elder." What would a neutral entity care about instruct him to return to the Elder? If the Guardian is a neutral entity it probably has some insight into the true nature of the Elder, so would this not be associating itself with Dark Gaia by default?

The only way to resolve this concern is to assume that the Guardian is a neutral entity on the very top of the Terranigma food chain with some level of omniscience and is basically guiding/manipulating the entire situation. Unfortunately this interpretation runs into the same problem as the one Yomi theory [See: What is the deal with Yomi] as why would a game that cares so much about balance between light and dark have an entity that has no counterbalance. Also for being a completely omnipotent being, the Guardian sure does not do very much outside of its role with the towers. So more than likely the Guardian is an ally or associate of Dark Gaia.

With the belief that the Guardian is an ally of Dark Gaia its role seems rather straight forward. The Guardian is simply a guide for Dark Ark through the towers measuring and testing his strength and resolve in effort to ensure that he is strong enough to control the evolution of the surface world to accomplish his role in Dark Gaia's plan.

The Ending:

The ending has always been an interesting subject of analysis both for its beauty and ambiguity. One interesting question about the ending is that everyone only talks about Dark Ark's body, Dark Gaia, Light Gaia and the game itself all reference Dark Ark's body disappearing, but not his mind or perhaps his soul. There is no reason to think that Dark Ark's body will not disappear because it is comprised of Crystal Blue and at the Gaia Stone "The Golden Child" states that each Ark is to return to its respective world. So assume that the body does disappear, it is almost impossible to argue that it does not, what happens to the mind and soul? The mind probably dissipates as well for without a physical construct there is little possibility for the mind to survive, but the soul is another question entirely. My opinions regarding the origins of Dark Ark's soul can be reviewed at [See: Does Dark Ark have a soul] and [See: Who exactly is the Hero].

Clearly the bird sequence in the ending is a dream as the game literally states that it is, but one key element that needs to be addressed is that Dark Ark is still a Crystian despite everything he has gone through. Crystians seem to have the ability to predict the future on some level in their dreams, so it is not out of the question to rationalize that Dark Ark's final dream is a premonition of the future [See: Dreams of Crystians]. If Dark Ark does indeed have a genuine soul then with his 'death' that soul should be a viable candidate to enter the reincarnation process. At this juncture the analysis picks up regarding what this dream could represent. The primary interpretation, especially if Dark Ark does indeed have a soul, is the bird is future reincarnated Ark. However, as discussed earlier, the reincarnation process is not capricious so why did Dark Ark reincarnate as a bird instead of a human so he could be with Light Elle?

A bird seems to be a rational choice when you look at Dark Ark's wishes throughout the game. If memory serves Reborn Ark or Dark Ark never declares his love for Light Elle possibly because he loves Dark Elle not Light Elle, who is now no longer on this plane of existence for all the player knows (her confrontation with Dark Yomi). If he does not love Light Elle there is no reason to come back as a human to foster a relationship with her, so little reason to be a human, but why a bird? Dark Ark can be characterized as somewhat of a free spirit [See: Who is Dark Ark as a Person] and strives to live a carefree life something Reborn Ark wishes a return to during the game.

So becoming a bird makes sense, the bird with its ability to fly has a vast amount of freedom, it has no real responsibilities giving it a carefree existence and the bird has the ability to form various relationships with other creatures although not as significant as a human due to communication barriers. So a bird appears to fulfill the psychological desires of Dark Ark more than a human. Dark Ark does acknowledge the importance of home and family at the end, but with the destruction of Crysta there is no family or home left for him.

Assuming that Dark Ark is indeed a bird (a.k.a. Ark the bird) and it is the premonition of the future, what is being seen through his eyes? Clearly some level of time has passed as the world has advanced in development and technology since Ark's death and Ark the bird is an adult bird not a baby bird, so he has also advanced in a time as well. Of course these elements are not that interesting, but when Ark finishes his flight he lands in a forest where the conjecture can pickup in earnest. What exactly does Ark the bird see and/or do in the forest if anything?

The first question is are the bird sequence and the Light Elle sequence mutually exclusive or are they connected in some respect? I believe it is difficult to concluded that these elements are mutually exclusive because of the very act of Ark the bird physically landing in the forest area which cannot be confirmed as Norfor forest, but it is difficult to concluded that it is not Norfor forest either. So based on the transition between scences it is reasonable to conclude that Ark the bird is landing in a forest area near Storkholm where Light Elle waits for Reborn Ark's return.

The second question is what role is Ark the bird performing in the forest? I believe there are two rational possibilities; first Ark the bird is actually knocking on the door in order to somehow communicate its presence and identity to Light Elle. This is an interesting statement because before it was stated that Dark Ark may not love Light Elle, hence his reincarnation as a bird, so why visit Light Elle? The best explanation seems to be to somehow communicate to Light Elle that her Ark be it Light or Dark is not coming back and there is no reason for her to continue to wait for an event that will never occur (recall that Light Elle tells Reborn Ark that she will wait for his return) as Dark Ark still has a positive relationship with Light Elle even if there is no romantic love involved. How this could be actually communicated is up for debate.

One question arises in that if an individual is indeed reincarnated are their memories of past experiences erased? In real life it is difficult to conclude in the positive or the negative because of the existence of charlatans that claim to interpret and uncover memories from past lives in currently living individuals may cloud reality. However, the game seems to try to interpret something with respect to reincarnation. There are some 'echoes', for lack of a better term, experienced by some individuals, for example the mill worker in Crysta claims, "I've been getting this weird feeling like I worked like this a long time ago…" The problem is how specific is this feeling? There is no way to know whether or not this individual only interprets the most general feelings or if there are specific details and people that he recalls which trigger these feelings. Also the individual in this example is Crystian so are these feelings genuine or artificial?

I see two conclusions being drawn from this question. First, memories from past lives can be recalled. Recalling his relationship with Light Elle, Ark the bird seeks her out for the aforementioned reason.

Second, when a soul is reincarnated the memories from past lives are wiped. If this is the case then Ark the bird in flight and the Light Elle scene are mutually exclusive for what reason would Ark the bird have to seek out an individual that it has no recollection of? Of course the biggest problem with this analysis is why would the ending show Ark the bird landing in a forest instead of simply transitioning between the two scenes while Ark the bird was still in flight? The best answer I can think of is Ark the bird is simply a spectator for the events occurring with Light Elle and there is no discernable relationship between Ark the bird and Light Elle. Of course that would mean that for purposes of plot and/or continuity Ark the bird simply happened to arrive at Storkholm to witness the events between Light Elle and another individual. This stance leads into the second possibility for Ark the bird's presence in the forest, to witness this meeting.

So who exactly is knocking on the door if it is not Ark the bird? Only three entities are present when Light Elle declares that she will wait in Storkholm for Reborn Ark's return, Dark Ark, "The Golden Child" and Light Yomi. Assuming that Light Elle is able to fend for herself, not a hard assumption to accept based on her past experiences and psychology, it would be reasonable to concluded that only these three entities would eventually seek her out, not some random individual. Recall that locating Storkholm is probably impossible for someone without the Protect Bell (more than likely lost with Dark Ark) or unless the individual had been there before, it is highly unlikely that one of King Henri's soldiers would return and Fyda and King Henri are dead.

So between these three entities it would be very difficult in my mind to conclude that Light Yomi was knocking on the door for it has no reason to seek out Light Elle in addition to how difficult knocking would probably be for it. As previously stated Ark the bird is not knocking on the door in this scenario, so that leaves the only viable candidate as "The Golden Child". For all the player sees of "The Golden Child" he does not have a body, only existing as a soul. However, clearly "The Golden Child" must have had a body prior to his sealment in Antarctica, especially when considering the events at Astarica [See: What the heck is happening at Astarica]. So it is not irrational to consider after the confrontation at the Gaia Stone "The Golden Child" is somehow given another physical body. This fact is supported by the number of graves in Antarctica which all seem to be associated with "The Golden Child's" existence.

Assuming the above is correct that "The Golden Child" does receive a new body, why would he seek out Light Elle? This question is quite difficult due to the sheer lack of knowledge regarding the past life/lives of "The Golden Child" and his relationships with other individuals. As stated previously, it can be questioned that "The Golden Child" before participating in the original sealing of Dark Gaia might not have even known of Storkholm's existence let alone resided there. Without plummeting into a vast black hole of conjecture there appears to be two rational reasons by "The Golden Child" would seek out Light Elle. Either "The Golden Child" had a past relationship of some unknown nature with Light Elle before becoming "The Golden Child" and wants to rekindle that relationship or "The Golden Child" when a part of Reborn Ark saw the potential for a relationship with Light Elle. So it appears that depending on your beliefs there can be one of two causes for the mysterious knock, yet no real way to determine who actually is reasonable.
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PostEmeth Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:58 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I'm back baby… well I guess I never really left I just kept waiting for more debate. Two issues today one point of debate that probably cannot be resolved, but may be interesting and one point of discussion regarding the role of Light Gaia.

One question that I have been wondering about lately is why did Dark Gaia elected to use Storkholm as the 'blueprint' for Crysta? Clearly it makes sense to reason that Storkolm is not the only city that exists before the world was sealed because using the stasis argument it is difficult to believe that so many cities could be constructed in only three years pertaining to the general time elapsed when humans are revived. So why use Storkholm? Freedom is pretty cool, Nirlake has the rustic charm, the technological Neotokio was available, so what is it about some nothing town that made it most attractive choice?

Two possibilities immediately come to mind when considering such a question. First, Dark Gaia might not have had much of a choice in crafting Crysta because of certain restrictions possibly brought on by the link between the two Pandora's Boxes. Due to the importance of Pandora's Box Crysta and Storkholm must be constructed in a specific way to house the box. So when a respective world is unsealed Storkholm or Crysta retains a specific form. Therefore, the design of Crysta is preordained and Dark Gaia has nothing to do with it. Clearly this explanation is rather shaky especially because at the Gaia Stone "The Golden Child" states that Dark Gaia replicated Crysta. Of course one argument in favor of preordained Crystal Blue could be the existence of lava flows and the like in the underworld as why would Dark Gaia need to create such things? Overall I am probably reading too much into an issue in which the programmers did not care.

The second possibility is best explained by a connection between "The Golden Child" and Storkholm. Thus there must be a necessary connection between any Dark Ark and Crysta. Of course I have argued previously that I do not see any evidence for a significant connection between Storkholm and "The Golden Child" as I am not sure if one can even argue that it is his hometown. Wait a minute what did I do here, just argue that there is no logical reason for Crysta to look like Storkholm? Anyone else have any other reasonable ideas?

Earlier in my analysis I discussed the residual revival of Crysta at the end of the game after Dark Ark seals Dark Gaia to explain why Crysta looked like normal. Overall my residual belief may not be correct; instead I now think that Light Gaia is responsible for the appearance/revival of Crysta. If Light Gaia is responsible that means it can manipulate Crystal Blue. What is the justification for such a change in thought? After the conversation between Light Gaia and Dark Ark Crysta is restored to its former glory, with floating Crystal Blue and everything. Before the final battle with Dark Gaia Crysta is desolate and destroyed and the revival occurs after Dark Gaia is sealed, so Dark Gaia cannot have any part in revival. The reason I settle on Light Gaia instead of a residual theory is because of the existence of Elle. If everything reverted back due to a residual you should see a second Dark Ark or not see Dark Elle depending on the type of residual, but because neither condition is met a residual is unlikely. Therefore, how else could another Dark Elle be created if not by Light Gaia as Dark Gaia is sealed and the 'original' Dark Elle destroyed herself?

Another option could be that Dark Gaia was creating an illusion before the final battle, but that seems far-fetched and does not explain the existence of Elle in the ending before Ark goes to sleep. The explanation that the entire game was just a dream does not match up well with what Elle says to Ark when he goes to sleep for the last time. So what does anyone else think about this aspect of Light Gaia's supposed ability to manipulate Crystal Blue? Also can a Gaian only directly cross over to the opposing world when its respective Gaian is sealed?
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PostBlade Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:39 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I finally read through -almost- everything.

I noticed some in-game things I haven't noticed before, which is incredible, since I thought I'dknow EVERYTHING about the game.
(The 4 portraits are Wong, Henri, probably Beruga and someone else, I always thought those were portraits of the Queens sons).

You also give a new light on the whole Astarica issue (which is REALLY the hardest question to answer)

All in all, its all quite hypotetical, some questions seem unimportant to me. Like how much power Dark Gaia has over crystal blue, who and how he created the Crystians, and if he can destroy them at will.

But 1 thing you pointed out made me happy after all. Somewhere, you write about how miserable and tragic Light Elles life was. Now, I'd like to think that either "The Golden Child" or "Reborn Ark" (I'd go with the first) come to her and knock on her door, which opens speculations what happens afterwards (friendship, love, ?) but all in all, it gives the impression of a happy end for her.

All in all, I gotta say, thank you for posting and writing it!
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PostEmeth Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:59 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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You are welcome Blade. I am glad that someone found something worthwhile in these posts. I realize that I probably go too far in some of the analysis. I would not be surprised if a writer or programmer for Terranigma would read my analysis and say, "sometimes a lava flow is just a lava flow." However, I try to analyze everything because I fear that most analysis only scratches the surface of what the game has to offer and that does not do it much justice.

One more thing I thought of recently was a better clarification to my explanation to why Dark Yomi did not follow through with killing Dark Ark once he revived Beruga. Now everyone would accept that "The Golden Child" did play a part in sealing Dark Gaia during an earlier cycle. I personally believe that he did it alone at one point in time whereas others may not, believing he partnered with someone else. Regardless Dark Yomi could have been thinking that even if he kills Dark Ark, "The Golden Child" still could emerge and defeat Dark Gaia once again, especially if my though process is correct. I do not believe that Dark Yomi knew where "The Golden Child" was or really anything about "The Golden Child" beyond that fact that he is a threat, so Dark Yomi has no idea what "The Golden Child" can do or will do; however, if Dark Yomi keeps close to Dark Ark as he seeks out "The Golden Child" and was able to kill both of them then there would be no one to stop Dark Gaia. So in an effort to tie up all possible loose ends Dark Yomi waits until "The Golden Child" is found, unfortunately this waiting screwed over both him and Dark Gaia.
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:50 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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this is a very impressive piece of work. i haven't read the whole thing yet (as i have to leave for uni in about 30 minutes), but what ive read so far seems to be very interesting.

i have a few theories of my own to add, however.

firstly, i believe that Dark Ark, the Golden Child, and Light Ark may be the same entity. notice how the Golden Child doesnt have a body, and resembles Dark Ark? i believe this may be because the Golden Child is Dark Ark, only a former incarnation. my theory basically is that similar events occurred in the past, before the game begins. Dark Ark ends up in Crysta, perhaps as a guardian of sorts (i also have a theory as to who the Guardian is), but unaware of his purpose. This might be why there is no Light Ark living in storkolm, and why there is no physical form of Light Ark on the surface. The Golden Child summoned by the starstones, i believe, is in some sense Ark's purpose (or knowledge of what occurred in the past), to seal Dark Gaia and restore balance (Dark Gaia being active and exerting influence on the world, while Light Gaia doesnt seem to be doing anything). When the Golden Child 'attacks' Ark, he does not destroy his body, rather he restores his knowledge that he is the destined hero, and thus he is able to wield the Hero's Arms. It is stated that Ark exists outside the loop of fate before he collects the starstones, which is why he was sent by the Elder to resurrect the world in the first place, and also why he wasn't killed by Beruga's robots after you finish the lab.

I also believe that the Elder, the Guardian, and Dark Gaia are one and the same. Notice how the Guardian and the Elder both aid Ark on his first quest to resurrect the continents? the Guardian provides challenges for Ark, ensuring he will be up to the challenge of resurrecting the surface world. And after Ark returns to Crysta in chapter 4, there is no Guardian at the towers, as he no longer needs to prove himself. Rather, the Elder takes Ark to Gaia Stone. as expected, no Elder to be seen.. and Dark Gaia at the end of the path. after Ark resurrects Beruga, the Elder tells him he is no longer needed. When he collects the starstones, and by my previous theory, becomes aware of his true purpose, he is considered a threat by Dark Gaia. Dark Gaia then sends the only person Ark would not be able to force himself to attack... Elle. Dark Yomi does say something about 'the Elder, nay Dark Gaia...', which can be interpreted to mean either that the Elder is Dark Gaia, or that the Elder is an underling of Dark Gaia, albeit more favoured than say Henri or Beruga.
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PostEmeth Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:00 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Wow a new post with discussion potential.

An interesting offering regarding character similarity, but there are some issues that should be addressed. In my mind The Golden Child and Light Ark are generally the same person just known by different names dependent on form (for me I typically think of the human/physical external Ark as Light Ark and spiritual external Ark as The Golden Child, but I do use the names interchangeably), so I agree there.

I believe the reason there is no physical Ark (Light Ark) on the surface is because his physical body is dead. As I discussed earlier the life cycle of Light Ark/The Golden Child is different from other beings due to its anointment. The Golden Child does not enter into the reincarnation process before separation from the secondary host's body. Basically the normal entity would have two steps in existence, a physical existence that later dies and a spiritual existence that almost immediately re-enters the reincarnation process. However, Light Ark/The Golden Child has three steps in existence, a physical existence that later dies, a spiritual existence that is sealed in Antarctica and a spiritual existence that enters the reincarnation process after the seal in Antarctica is broken and no physical body exists to host it.

However, coming to the conclusion that Dark Ark and Light Ark are the same entity the way you describe is a little more difficult. The major problem arises with a statement made by The Golden Child at the Gaia Stone after defeating Dark Gaia. Paraphrasing he states that Dark Gaia made Dark Ark by copying him. One could come to the conclusion that the current cycle's Golden Child was created from a last cycle Ark, who was reborn, as is one interpretation of the ending. Whether or not this particular Ark is Reborn Ark or Dark Ark is unclear. Overall discussion of Reborn Ark at the ending gets a little dicey because of Light Gaia's and The Golden Child's somewhat conflicting statements.

Dark Ark's body, made of Crystal Blue, probably does not survive any longer than Crysta despite Light Gaia seemingly manipulating Crystal Blue, probably due to the inability of a Gaia to have a definitive influence on the other Gaia's realm. However, if one believes that Dark Ark has a soul it can be reasoned that Dark Ark enters the reincarnation process, gets a new body, dies and later that Dark Ark's spirit becomes The Golden Child when the new cycle begins.

The one big problem with this thought process is what happened in the very first cycle? At the beginning of the first cycle there needs to be a Light Ark (a.k.a. Physical The Golden Child) before a Dark Ark exists because Dark Gaia copies this Light Ark to make the first Dark Ark. So how can Dark Ark and Light Ark at their cores be the same? That is the tough question; how can two entities be the same if one exists before the other?

One way you could reason is liken Light Ark and Dark Ark to two sides of the same coin, similar to what the game does for every entity, an external side and an internal side. This explanation depends entirely on how you look at the nature of Crystal Blue [See: What is Crystal Blue]. The coin analogy can be used because although the internal side does not exist until Dark Gaia creates it after first contact with Light Ark, the elements necessary for its creation exist. One question I asked in the past was when a creature is born on the surface world, in Light Gaia's realm, does an equal amount of Crystal Blue appear in the underworld to match the essence of that newly born creature? If one agrees with this mindset and also believes that this Crystal Blue is limited in what it can create, then it is possible that Light Ark and Dark Ark can be considered two sides of the same coin.

When Light Ark is born the coin is created with a head, no tail image but a place for it. The image is created when Dark Gaia molds that image from the Crystal Blue created when Light Ark was born. However, if you do not believe either of these Crystal Blue characteristics then I do not know how one can state that Light Ark and Dark Ark are the same rather than simply compatible entities.

With reference to the link between the Guardian, the Elder and Dark Gaia, as you mention Dark Yomi tells you when you morph from a baby to adult in Chapter 4 that the Elder is Dark Gaia. So the Elder can be regarded as an avatar of Dark Gaia. This belief is further supported by Dark Gaia's appearance as the Elder in Chapter 4 when Reborn Ark enters Crysta in that Reborn Ark is transported to the Gaia Stone and that Dark Gaia comments that it will fight Reborn Ark with true/real form. However, there is no evidence that I can think of to support or disprove the contention that the Guardian is another avatar of Dark Gaia, there is just not enough information presented about the Guardian in the game.
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PostArghetlam Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:24 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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You got me to join the forums just from these discussions. Bravo. Sorry if this feels like bumping a dead topic, but I have a couple ideas I'd like to toss around concerning Ark's last day in Crysta.

Here's my thought process: Light Gaia says that Ark's body will soon dissappear from the Underworld, and to enjoy his last day in Crysta. Remember that. This is all fine and good, but the big thing for me that kinda seemed off was this:

Dark Elle is there, and walking like nothing out of the ordinary happened, like he never even left. You'd think a little thing like her dying would be noteworthy.

We go through this scene of Ark falling asleep and having the dream of him turning into a bird.

For me, though, it doesn't end here.

It would seem logical that since Ark was "reborn" as a baby of the upperworld, he isn't composed of Crystal Blue at this point, and therefore wouldn't just dissappear as Light Gaia had said.

For this next theory to work, I need to toss down this idea - Ark is outside of the loop of fate. So what constitutes "in" the loop of fate?

My theory works on this idea - being outside the loop of fate means that you don't apply to the dark/light balance. This means that there's always been one Ark, which gives rise to the question, "then what happened with the Starstones?" We got a chance to see Light Ark, correct?

We saw a sillhuette. A shadow, if you will.

And Ark discussed the idea in Astarica, that he saw a glimpse of Elle's other side. Could the startones have simply brought out Ark's other side?

Which brings us to this point.

Now, Light Gaia said to enjoy his last day in Crysta. What this could be would be Ark's chance to say his final goodbyes to his friends in Crysta before he made his final move to the Upper World when the Under World dissappears. Crysta, as we know, is pretty much a ghost town and getting ready to give up the ghost, so Light Gaia used its power to give Ark the illusion of his home town.

After finally being deposited back into the Upper World, what now? Well, Dark Elle's gone, indeed, the entire Under World, but we have a whole slew of new friends, including a living and well, albeit lonely Elle. So why not start there?

We know that Ark loved Dark Elle, but Light Elle also loves Ark, as far as I understood, but Dark Elle and Light Elle shouldn't be too far different from eachother, personality wise. For this, I borrow a quote from Alter Code F:

"Besides, it'll give me a chance to hit on her all over again!"

And, knowing Ark, that would be a chance he wouldn't pass up.

That's my theory.
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:00 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Concerning the last day in Crysta, i believe that to be primarily in Ark's mind. since the 'souls' of Crysta are the creation of Dark Gaia, Ark would not be treated well there, nor would it exist in its original form after Dark Gaia's defeat. Also the fact that Elle is present there, acting as if nothing ever happened, seems to reinforce my point.

Light Gaia wishes to grant Dark Ark one last day as himself, free from the burdens of the world (hence when the Golden Child says that he will return to 'his' world, thus leaving Ark without the burden of the inevitable battle to subdue Dark Gaia). This day would be as Ark remembered Crysta, before the events of the game happened, except without the influence of Dark Gaia, because he no longer has any power over Crysta. This would explain why no one knows about the Elder or Ark's journey. Ark does remember everything, which gives him the more mature, reserved appearance everyone comments on.

just my view.. and it wasnt much of a bump, only a few weeks or so as far as i can remember. and more discussion on this topic is always welcome (at least i welcome it, lol).

which leads me to wonder... is Bloody Mary taken directly/indirectly out of 'reality'? i say that in inverted commas because although the actual person refered to as Bloody Mary did exist, whether she was a homicidal ghoul of a sylvian queen is another matter which i will look into.
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PostEmeth Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:23 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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As long as your post is reasonable feel free to post in this thread no matter how old it may seem.

This is an interesting turn of events because there has not been one centralized topic regarding the events within Crysta after Dark Gaia is sealed, but before Dark Ark goes to sleep. I have periodically discussed the events in this timeframe now and again, but let's pool some theories. In my mind there are four theories that can be postulated for the state of Crysta in this timeframe.

The first theory is a reverted state theory in which Crysta reverts back to its most expressed state after Dark Gaia is sealed. Now I personally do not believe that reversion back to its original state is appropriate because I view the original state of Crysta as just floating Crystal Blue. Remember according to "The Golden Child" and Light Gaia, Dark Gaia shaped the form of Crysta from Crystal Blue. The second theory is that Light Gaia exerts its power to recreate the Crysta destroyed by Dark Gaia before it and Reborn Ark travel to the Gaia Stone. The third theory is that the entire game has been a dream by Ark and due to the foresight nature of dreams for citizens of Crysta the dream simply predicts the downfall of Crysta. The fourth theory is that raised by EverPhoenix, the events are perpetuated by Dark Ark's own mind.

Beginning with the third theory, it is difficult to believe this is correct because the game literally references Ark dreaming his last dream and if the game was simply foresight we would have to assume that 'the last dream' is in reference to Ark sleeping for the last time before going on the quest, which I do not buy. Also some signs in Crysta, the pond no longer reflecting anything, the Elder no longer being present and the words of the fortune-teller dissuade the validity of this theory. The only thing that supports this theory is Elle's presences, she has not sacrificed herself yet and her comment that Dark Ark is tuning out. Rather weak support when facing the detractions.

Leaving the fourth theory for a little later that leaves theories one and two up for discussion. A key crux to ascertaining the validity of each theory seems to be creating a viable explanation for the presence of Dark Elle. Starting with the first theory of reversion. It is difficult for me to believe that the reversion would not be pure, i.e. 100%, based on the previous state. However, there are some differences that can be noted, the absence of the Elder, the absence of the Magirock store, the presence of Dark Elle and the absence of the basement behind the blue door.

The absence of the Elder can be explained because the Elder is an avatar of Dark Gaia and Dark Gaia can be viewed as an independent and unique entity that exists apart from the general constructs of the underworld. Depending on your viewpoint to the origins of Magirock [See: What is a Magirock], the store's absence can be explained rather easily as well in the same context as the Elder. However, the absence of the basement does not make sense in a reversion because the basement housed the Light Side Pandora's Box, but there is no reason to contend that the basement itself was created by Dark Gaia or had any special connection to Dark Gaia, so it should still be there instead just lacking a box like it did before the battle with Dark Gaia at the Gaia Stone.

The presence of Elle is a little trickier because it centers on the question of whether she can be considered a unique entity. If she is a unique entity then her presence is a misnomer, but if she is not then it is expected that she should be present as is the presence of all other citizens of Crysta. I believe she was originally more similar to another citizen than Dark Ark to begin with, but did have the potential for growth and tapped into that potential during her conflict with Dark Yomi becoming her own independent entity [See: Who is Dark Elle and What is Her Fate? and How does Dark Elle stop Dark Yomi?].

So because Dark Elle became unique before her demise, in some respects her demise can be viewed as her ascension, she should not be present in Crysta if the reversion occurs even if you want to consider this to be a fake Dark Elle because there is no Dark Gaia to create a fake one and Dark Elle is unique so a new one would not form by chance.

Overall I believe there are just too many inconsistencies for reversion to be the proper theory. That leaves the second theory, intervention on behalf of Light Gaia. The first piece of evidence that Light Gaia intervenes is its speech to Dark Ark. Recall that when Light Gaia speaks to Dark Ark the surrounding environment of Crysta is still a rather desolate wasteland, then Light Gaia disappears and the screen changes to Dark Ark and Dark Elle in Dark Elle's house. The presence of Dark Elle could very well be false in this juncture if Light Gaia can manipulate Crystal Blue for short periods of time. If Light Gaia can manipulate Crystal Blue then all of the issues that are questioned in reversion are no longer an issue. So right now theory two looks suitable.

Moving on to the fourth theory, my concern with this theory are Light Gaia's words about spending one final day in Crysta. Even if you believe that the events of Crysta are within Dark Ark's mind I believe that statement occurred before Dark Ark's mind, so Light Gaia must have something to do with the trigger that generates the events in Dark Ark's mind. However, this point should not be viewed as a negative for the validity of the theory.

Instead my question for the fourth theory would again return to the absence of a basement behind the blue door. If Dark Ark is imagining Crysta why does he imagine the blue door as a broom closet and why does he need to be told by those in the Elder's former house that it is a broom closet, he seems to believe that there is still something special about the door. This confusion leads me to believe that someone or something else is behind the current state of Crysta.

With that said though, the differences between the second and fourth theory are really marginal because the only real difference is confirmation on whether or not Light Gaia can manipulate Crystal Blue, but because Light Gaia plays such a limited role in the game and that manipulation is of limited philosophical value it is not overly important to determine which theory is correct. In my mind the big point is that Light Gaia plays a role in the appearance of Crysta after Dark Gaia is sealed.

To address some of your points Arghetlam -

It would seem logical that since Ark was "reborn" as a baby of the upperworld, he isn't composed of Crystal Blue at this point, and therefore wouldn't just dissappear as Light Gaia had said.

This reasoning depends on what you think transpired at the Gaia Stone. For my thoughts [See: Why is Dark Ark not bound to fate whereas all others seem to be bound? later in this post.] The events at the Gaia Stone are important because they directly dictate who and what Dark Ark is when returning to Crysta. There exists the possibility that Dark Ark ceases to exist, is reborn in the surface world or is kept in a form of stasis in the sealed underworld.

However, I believe it is difficult to believe that Dark Ark is not still Crystal Blue because Dark Gaia comments to this fact when it confronts Reborn Ark. Also the game seems to heavily imply that Dark Ark's body simply disappears with certain statement in Crysta [for example Crystal Blue being reflecting in Ark's eyes illustrates to me his body breaking down]. Of course whether or not his soul does again it depends on what you believe occurs at the Gaia Stone when Reborn Ark apparently separates into Dark Ark and "The Golden Child".

We know that Ark loved Dark Elle, but Light Elle also loves Ark, as far as I understood, but Dark Elle and Light Elle shouldn't be too far different from eachother, personality wise.

[For more background information of my thoughts on this issue please reference my discussion of the Ending Thread a couple of posts ago and 'What about Light Elle.] I would disagree with this statement as if you recall the conversation between Dark Ark and Light Elle on the boat towards Freedom Dark Ark views Light Elle as strong-willed and Dark Elle as quiet and caring, a difference to which Light Elle takes offense. It can be reasonably assumed that Light Elle has some form of romantic feelings for Dark Ark because after Dark Elle takes out Dark Yomi, Light Elle asks Dark Ark if she could ever replace Dark Elle, a question with a significant level of romantic overtones when considering the relationship between Dark Ark and Dark Elle, especially after the events at a certain notable hill. Also her statement that she will wait forever for Ark's return is telling.

However, Dark Ark replies the same regardless of choice that Dark Elle meant a lot to him and he cannot think about another person else right now. It can be said that due to her relationship with Dark Ark, Light Elle probably softens a little changing her personality in a more similar way to Dark Elle, but I still believe there is a significant difference.

Whether or not Dark Ark ever has any romantic feelings towards Light Elle is left unclear, but psychology might say that it would be hard for him because of how much she would remind him of Dark Elle even in appearance alone. However, you could argue the other way that during the ending sequence Dark Ark does comment on the importance of relationships and loved ones and may seek out Light Elle due to this realization. Whether or not this question is even valid involves the fact that Dark Ark needs to be reborn and still remember Light Elle.

That of course is a separate question regarding the outcome of the ending, but seeing that Kumari has the ability to hyper-mature a new body, it is one of little consequence when considering ending possibilities.

My theory works on this idea - being outside the loop of fate means that you don't apply to the dark/light balance. This means that there's always been one Ark, which gives rise to the question, "then what happened with the Starstones?" We got a chance to see Light Ark, correct?

We saw a sillhuette. A shadow, if you will.

And Ark discussed the idea in Astarica, that he saw a glimpse of Elle's other side. Could the startones have simply brought out Ark's other side?


Overall this is an interesting idea with the action of the Starstones; however, I see one obstacle. After Reborn Ark defeats and seals Dark Gaia at the Gaia Stone, "The Golden Child" informs Dark Ark that Dark Ark was created by Dark Gaia by copying him. So according to "The Golden Child" another version of Ark needs to exist before this Dark Ark. So how can Dark Ark exist before a Light Ark?

One could say that the copied Ark is the previous cycles Reborn Ark until you go backwards to the first cycle, but in the first cycle there needs to be a Light Ark for Dark Gaia to copy from in the first place. Also you run into the problem of the rational behind creating the Starstones, especially because they seem to be a Light Gaia based object. Why would Light Gaia create the Starstone without control over the creation of Dark Ark? If Dark Ark is apart from fate I am not sure if Light Gaia can anticipate the creation of Dark Ark.

My theories on the subject of the "The Golden Child" are at What or Who Exactly is "The Golden Child"? and "Why is Dark Ark not bound to fate whereas all others seem to be bound"?

Side Note - In my opinion the events at Astarica do not awaken the internal soul of the individual that drinks the nectar, but instead it awakens the internal soul of Earth/Gaia itself, i.e. Dark Gaia.

It is also interesting that you bring up Dark Ark and fate because I was just about to post something regarding that very issue. Here are my thoughts that might inspire more debate.

Why is Dark Ark not bound to fate whereas all others seem to be bound?

The game states that Dark Ark is special because he exists outside the loop of fate, but how did he attain such a stature? The theory that I ascribe requires discussion about the original Light Ark before becoming "The Golden Child" and before there ever was a Dark Ark.

For the sake of argument assume that a soul can be divided into an external and internal side with the external side typically constrained to the surface world and the internal side constrained to the underworld. Each of these souls has an assigned fate due to the external or internal characterization. However, when created, Light Ark had a blank soul, a rare and unique thing which has no inherent external or internal characterization, but potential for both.

This lack of characterization removes Light Ark from the loop of fate; he is free to act on his own. The events leading to Dark Gaia being sealed for the first time etches the future of "The Golden Child" on the soul, basically Light Gaia anoints Light Ark as "The Golden Child". During the events at Astarica, consumption of the dew apparently kills Light Ark, with causes Light Gaia to seal his anointed soul at Antarctica. Whether or not the soul actually receives external characteristics at this point is up for debate.

So what does any of this have to do with Dark Ark? Recall that I postulated the possibility of certain Crystal Blue having a unique construct based on who was responsible for its creation [Who is Dark Elle and What is Her Fate]. When Light Ark was created, the accompanying blank soul resulted in the creation of a specific Crystal Blue construct that held the characteristics of that soul. Although the blank soul has no inherent characteristics, the associated Crystal Blue is of internal nature giving rise to the internal nature of Dark Ark.

Now one could argue that how can this particular Crystal Blue have an internal nature if its original construct (the blank soul) has no defining nature? It is because Crystal Blue itself is internal in nature and its creation does not necessarily coincide with the external soul, but the external physical body. The nature of the Crystal Blue can match certain characteristics of the soul. Not all Crystal Blue necessarily matches certain characteristics, but this is a special case and how it may operate with a unique soul.

Once Dark Gaia is unsealed (recall it can be thought that Dark Gaia is sealed originally by Light Ark alone) and Light Ark is dead sealed as "The Golden Child", Dark Gaia uses the unique Crystal Blue as the physical construct for Dark Ark and creates an artificial soul for Dark Ark. Due to the nature of this particular construct, Dark Ark does not exist in the loop of fate and can open Pandora's Box.

The plot unfolds and Dark Ark meets with "The Golden Child". The fusion between these two entities is able to occur because the unique pattern structure of Dark Ark's Crystal Blue and the soul of "The Golden Child" match and are compatible. After the rebirth, Reborn Ark has a new soul, (recall that in this scenario Dark Ark has an artificial soul) whether or not this new soul has external and internal characteristics is debatable because unlike the birth of Light Ark the birth of Reborn Ark occurs through the combination of internal characteristics and a blank soul that may or may not have external characteristics.

For the sake of argument assume that the blank soul needs to have external characteristics to foster the fusion. Based on the rules for souls established earlier due to the external and internal nature of the fused soul it is probable that Reborn Ark does have a fate and his fate is to seal Dark Gaia, thus explaining the previous question of why he needs to return to the underworld.

Events continue to unfold and Dark Gaia is sealed, so what happens at the Gaia Stone? If the soul of Reborn Ark indeed has external and internal characteristics the most probable result is Light Ark returning to the surface world and is probably reborn with an external soul and a particular fate and Dark Ark returns to the underworld now with a new genuine internal soul.

When the underworld is sealed unfortunately due to the rules of souls Dark Ark's soul is sealed as well. Of course based on earlier discussion if this actually happened then both Light Ark and Dark Ark would have to have fates, thus such characterization would conflict with future cycles because at least future Dark Arks needs to exist outside of the loop of fate. Therefore, for this scenario to be accurate the game needs to illustrate the last cycle.

The other probable scenario is that the fusion of "The Golden Child" and Dark Ark occurs and Reborn Ark is born with a blank soul. After sealing Dark Gaia, "The Golden Child" depart the Gaia Stone to be either reborn or resealed in Antarctica, let's say resealed at this point and Dark Ark returns to the underworld with a piece of Reborn Ark's blank soul, which is why Light Gaia cites the blood of Light and Dark Gaia coursing through Dark Ark's veins.

The underworld is sealed, Dark Ark body dies, but his soul is reborn in the surface world due to its blank nature and ironically becomes Light Ark, thus the cycle continues. So the original Light Ark becomes "The Golden Child" and remains as such never being reborn and the Dark Ark of cycle n becomes the Light Ark of cycle n + 1, with the clause that that particular Light Ark never evolves into "The Golden Child" because there already is a Golden Child instead he simply dies.



Finally after all of that, regarding the question of Bloody Mary, it does seem probable that Bloody Mary in the game is likened after Mary the First (Mary I) the Queen of England in the mid 16th Century. Part of the reason is because so many other places and characters in history can be likened to characters in Terranigma. Some possible similarities:

1. The title Bloody Mary was given to Mary the First because she is largely credited/blamed for the deaths of nearly 300 religious dissenters by burning them at the stake during an event later known as the Marian Persecutions. In the game Bloody Mary is thought to have killed quite a few individuals herself.

2. Mary suffered from two 'phantom' pregnancies, which could be likened to the game's Bloody Mary inability to have more children after losing her sons and in some theories Beruga stepping in to genetically create offspring.

3. Mary the First did have a loose connection with the throne of Spain as her husband Philip the Second inherited the throne when his father abdicated. So in the game Bloody Mary could be the Queen of Spain from a historical context.

Overall it is probable, but there is no 'silver bullet' that can directly connected Mary the First to the game's Bloody Mary unlike most other characters.
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PostCoz Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:18 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Kudos to Emeth.
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PostEverPhoenix Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:33 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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not much i can really say in reply to that, but thanks for clearing up the Bloody Mary issue. i did read up on it on wikipedia and arrived at similar conclusions, so its good to know i might be justified in arriving at them.

and as for the blue door, a broom cupboard might be just an excuse Light Gaia made up, to get rid of its original nature (assuming my theory that the events of the 'last day' are in fact dream). Ark questions this because he believes it to still be as it was before, containing Pandora's Box. As the 'new' Crysta was supposed to be more normal, free from the influence of Dark Gaia, fate, or anything of the sort, the cave behind the blue door cannot exist. If it did exist it would mean that Ark's duty is not over. Being outside the loop of fate, and the only (with the exception of Elle, who is supposed to have been destroyed) unique person in Crysta, implies that if there was anything behind the door, he would have to deal with it.

my point is that Ark is still himself, although not burdened with being outside the loop of fate (since the Golden Child has apparently returned to the surface and as far as i know resides once more in astarica or dryvale). He retains all his memories of everything that happened, so naturally he will want to know.
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Postergz Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:22 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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OMG! thats a lot of writting a lot has happened in 2 years hahaha
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PostBrainfire2008 Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:26 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Well i remember that if Suncoast is is fully expanded the Animals form Safarium are imprisoned.

This also takes Bird Express to America away, i wonder if thats a Bug or was done intentionally to show there "no way back" and the world has changed.
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