PM I got regarding "cyber bullying" on youtube

[inferiare]

Don't get me wrong, SBiF, I would always help a friend who is struggling with suicide and depression.

Unfortunately the truth is, there are assholes everywhere, not just in someone's actual life. There are plenty of those same people on the net that thrive on making people go "THAT HURT MY FEELINGS YOU'RE CRUEL!", even on places that seem friendly enough. That's what they like to do, and they won't stop, even if they hear that they made someone kill themselves. They'll take the approach I did on the matter, with "It was over the internet," only expand on it with the "Internet is serious business" crap.

To me, those people that want to run away from it on the internet need to know that there are the same assholes on the internet as there are in their everyday lives, only they can't do as much damage if they don't let them do that damage. Certainly, asking your friends (online and offline, if that's what it takes) for help isn't bad. But if they don't want to seek that help, than one cannot help them. As Val said, when all they want is sympathy and nothing more, you can't beat it into their skulls any easier than you can tell them the same advice gently, if they don't want to hear it.

Honestly, the 'Internet is serious business' thing is pretty true in a lot of cases to me. People take what people say and do waaaaaay too seriously anymore, and they shouldn't. I think the problem with cyber bullying would decrease (I don't think it would stop altogether, since there would still be cases of people going WOE THIS FACELESS PERSON CALLED ME STUPID ON THE NET) if people stopped taking to heart what people say to them over the internet. There IS something they can do, regarding legal action in the US (libel, I think. I'm not too sure on the term at the moment), and if they really don't like it, they can take legal action to make that person stop.

It's up to the individual to want it to stop. If they want the advice, or help, they'll actively seek it. If all they want is the attention, then they need a lot more help than just a few internet personas trying to help.

[Miss Prime Blue]

there's a simple solution to this: ignore, ban, or just don't go on the net. Or, better yet, just create a new nick and then they won't know who you are.

[Coz]

tenchisouzou wrote:

there's a simple solution to this: ignore, ban, or just don't go on the net.

<spam> But there is so much shiny stuff here... O_O </spam>

[Manibrandr System]

tenchisouzou wrote:

there's a simple solution to this: ignore, ban, or just don't go on the net. Or, better yet, just create a new nick and then they won't know who you are.

Maybe, but that is besides the point. I thought that it would make a good discussion point.

[AlphaMan]

Greetings. I have been lurking on this forum for about a week.

However, I had to register due to the immense idiocy of this... "Valerie Valens" human. I may get banned or something, but I care not, as this needs to be addressed (no matter how old).

While the default subject is not something I would go into, the response of this humanoid was nothing short of failure.

Here, allow me to destroy it piece by piece :

"- Everyone has their own fair share of put downs in life. In the context of what you are speaking about, the depressed are far more well off than people in third or second world countries. Why? They do not count their blessings, they do not see what they do have because they take them for granted. That is what you would call spoiled."

This statement is poorly worded and I can find not a single bit of reason or logic in it. Please reword it and try again so that I may destroy it.

"- I do try to help people through rough times, friend or foe. However, those who are obnoxiously loud about their problems and overblow them have proven themselves to be indifferent to the mood of those around them and the mood of the discussion at hand. Funnily though, it seems that how grateful they are when I do extend a hand to help is always inversely proportional to how loud and obnoxious they are about their problems. You want to talk about inconsideration? There you have it."

You generalize too much. I was abused for 15 years. But I'm very grateful for what I have... Which is not much. Maybe you've only talked to one suicidal person, who just happened to not be a very good person in the first place?

"While we're at it, since the video in question also spoke of kids who killed themselves over some harmless internet hijinx, I am going to comment on how the suicidal folk are amongst the most hateful, disgusting, inconsiderate and malicious people ever known to mankind.

Okay so imagine what happens when a person takes their lives, first their friends and relatives will feel almost unbearable emotional pain for the next few months, there will be a huge ass funeral bill that they have to foot to give you a proper burial and eulogy, and moreover the pain of bereavement and self-loathing they will feel thinking that they could have prevented it will remain on their minds for the rest of their lives. Note that all this is intentional, the people who took their own lives or those who desire to actually want to inflict this onto their loved ones. They do not care for those who want them around, they do not care for the mess they will leave for their loved ones, they only see problems that are overinflated in magnitude because it pertained to them. I wouldn't even think of inflicting this kind of shit on my worst enemy, how the fuck can you even begin to justify this kind of hateful, wasteful and vindictive act?"

Hahahaha... Do not make me laugh, child. You think everyone has these so-called "loved ones?" No... A lot of us don't have anyone who could care less. That is how the idea of committing suicide stays. There is no one around who would tell us to do otherwise. Perhaps if you ever knew any suicidal people who used logic to obtain the idea of ending his/her own life, rather than acting on a growing trend that suicide is a great idea for no reason, you would know what we're really like.


"Now there is nothing wrong with being sad and expressing it, I do realise that people need a helping hand from time to time from others to get through and I usually am the first one to lend that helping hand. However, if they decide to be horribly inconsiderate about it, they can keep crying in the dark, it builds the much needed character that they lack."

... Not everyone gets the helping hand you insensitive asshat. I never have, and I still haven't committed suicide yet. I'm waiting until I am 18 so my parents will not go to jail for not doing anything about it, since they honestly do not care. This is more considerate than anything you will ever do, judging from your attitude towards people who think just a slight bit differently than yourself.

"Now, if you want to discuss this further with me in a rational fashion, then go ahead. What you saw from my comment on the video is nothing more than honesty, nothing more, nothing less. You will find that, should you decide to talk to me further in an amiable manner, this is a virtue that I value a lot more highly than any small-minded task of overinflating the egos of those who did not earn it."

It is a terrible virtue, and I think you are confusing suicidal people with "emos." The emos are the ones who have all the helping hands in the world but do nothing about it. Us suicidal people get none. We're rather cheated like that.

Now, I do not know the activity of this board or it's members. But I felt I needed to respond. I am hoping that due to this thread being many months old, all of the members in here have changed their idea on suicide by now and grown out of their immature habits.

I am quite angry from your insensitivity.

[DallasJR]

I love people like that!

So fun to tell off!

[NoZKeY]

o_o

I think the same: there are those ones who only feel bad to get attention, and those who really are feeling bad. But, anyways, both of them would not suicide even when all is dark. There are friends and family, always, and even if there are not, that's not reason to come to suicide.
I agree with VV i would response the same, and Alphaman: there are emos and suicidal people.

[AlphaMan]

NoZKeY wrote:

I think the same: there are those ones who only feel bad to get attention, and those who really are feeling bad. But, anyways, both of them would not suicide even when all is dark. There are friends and family, always, and even if there are not, that's not reason to come to suicide.

"VV" wasn't saying that there are two kinds of people, he was saying that all people who would be willing to end their own lives are insensitive bastards. Hmm, I guess he hates everyone in the military then.

Also, Until you've been in a situation where no one loves/cares about you, maybe you should kindly shut the fuck up.

[EverPhoenix]

AlphaMan wrote:

Greetings. I have been lurking on this forum for about a week. However, I had to register due to the immense idiocy of this... "Valerie Valens" human. I may get banned or something, but I care not, as this needs to be addressed (no matter how old). While the default subject is not something I would go into, the response of this humanoid was nothing short of failure.

As much as further discussion here may be appreciated, simply insulting someone for their point of view is rather uncalled for. And, judging by the contents of your post, it was your response that was "nothing short of failure". Allow me to destroy it for you.

AlphaMan wrote:

Here, allow me to destroy it piece by piece : "- Everyone has their own fair share of put downs in life. In the context of what you are speaking about, the depressed are far more well off than people in third or second world countries. Why? They do not count their blessings, they do not see what they do have because they take them for granted. That is what you would call spoiled." This statement is poorly worded and I can find not a single bit of reason or logic in it. Please reword it and try again so that I may destroy it.

This statement is worded fine, maybe those less concerned with their own distress and ego would be able to see that. Heres the general idea: people who are depressed dont look at the big picture. There are millions of people suffering a lot more than they ever could dream of, yet they still complain about how no one loves them. Personally i dont believe in comparing to countries of a lower living standard, as doing so too much isnt really healthy. It leads us to think about what exactly is wrong with the world.

AlphaMan wrote:

"- I do try to help people through rough times, friend or foe. However, those who are obnoxiously loud about their problems and overblow them have proven themselves to be indifferent to the mood of those around them and the mood of the discussion at hand. Funnily though, it seems that how grateful they are when I do extend a hand to help is always inversely proportional to how loud and obnoxious they are about their problems. You want to talk about inconsideration? There you have it." You generalize too much. I was abused for 15 years. But I'm very grateful for what I have... Which is not much. Maybe you've only talked to one suicidal person, who just happened to not be a very good person in the first place?

That isnt really a generalisation. I was also abused for the majority of my schooling. I didnt complain about it. The point here is that people who complain about their problems are only complaining for the sake of it, not to get any form of assistance. Out of the many people i've met who complain about their problems, only a few really had any form of justification to do so. The rest were just attention-seekers.

AlphaMan wrote:

"While we're at it, since the video in question also spoke of kids who killed themselves over some harmless internet hijinx, I am going to comment on how the suicidal folk are amongst the most hateful, disgusting, inconsiderate and malicious people ever known to mankind. Okay so imagine what happens when a person takes their lives, first their friends and relatives will feel almost unbearable emotional pain for the next few months, there will be a huge ass funeral bill that they have to foot to give you a proper burial and eulogy, and moreover the pain of bereavement and self-loathing they will feel thinking that they could have prevented it will remain on their minds for the rest of their lives. Note that all this is intentional, the people who took their own lives or those who desire to actually want to inflict this onto their loved ones. They do not care for those who want them around, they do not care for the mess they will leave for their loved ones, they only see problems that are overinflated in magnitude because it pertained to them. I wouldn't even think of inflicting this kind of shit on my worst enemy, how the fuck can you even begin to justify this kind of hateful, wasteful and vindictive act?" Hahahaha... Do not make me laugh, child. You think everyone has these so-called "loved ones?" No... A lot of us don't have anyone who could care less. That is how the idea of committing suicide stays. There is no one around who would tell us to do otherwise. Perhaps if you ever knew any suicidal people who used logic to obtain the idea of ending his/her own life, rather than acting on a growing trend that suicide is a great idea for no reason, you would know what we're really like.

Committing suicide is the most cowardly, low thing someone could do. It offers an escape from the "despair" you call life, at the expense of the sanity of everyone around you. Not just your 'loved ones', everyone you were ever friends with. Committing suicide results in effectively moving your grief onto someone else. Which is plain selfish. Even people who think that no one cares have people who care about them. Parents, friends, general well-wishers. If you think you have none of those, you must live alone in a dark room, never venturing outside or interacting with any other humans.

AlphaMan wrote:

"Now there is nothing wrong with being sad and expressing it, I do realise that people need a helping hand from time to time from others to get through and I usually am the first one to lend that helping hand. However, if they decide to be horribly inconsiderate about it, they can keep crying in the dark, it builds the much needed character that they lack." ... Not everyone gets the helping hand you insensitive asshat. I never have, and I still haven't committed suicide yet. I'm waiting until I am 18 so my parents will not go to jail for not doing anything about it, since they honestly do not care. This is more considerate than anything you will ever do, judging from your attitude towards people who think just a slight bit differently than yourself.

If this is what you call considerate, i'd hate to see what you call inconsiderate. Waiting til you are 18? Even in some sick twisted world, that still shows that you care. Which means that there has to be some reason for that. Evidently you aren't as alone as you thought. And as for the last statement, its not about people who think differently. Its those who think differently, are very loud about their thoughts, and take the attention of others for granted. If that is what you define as being differently-minded, then yes, I can see why people would be less inclined to care about someone like that.

AlphaMan wrote:

"Now, if you want to discuss this further with me in a rational fashion, then go ahead. What you saw from my comment on the video is nothing more than honesty, nothing more, nothing less. You will find that, should you decide to talk to me further in an amiable manner, this is a virtue that I value a lot more highly than any small-minded task of overinflating the egos of those who did not earn it." It is a terrible virtue, and I think you are confusing suicidal people with "emos." The emos are the ones who have all the helping hands in the world but do nothing about it. Us suicidal people get none. We're rather cheated like that.

Emos are very vocal about their angst. Despite it being unfounded, they are still very vocal about it. Maybe that's why they get 'all the helping hands'. "You suicidal people" wallow in your own despair. No one knows about your anger/sadness. If you were to seek help, you would find it. You arent cheated out of something just because it isnt presented to you on a silver platter.

AlphaMan wrote:

Now, I do not know the activity of this board or it's members. But I felt I needed to respond. I am hoping that due to this thread being many months old, all of the members in here have changed their idea on suicide by now and grown out of their immature habits. I am quite angry from your insensitivity.

Immature habits? Just because we are disgusted by the idea of suicide? This is an idea that the majority of people have. Only the insensitive, selfish few who would consider suicide think otherwise.

AlphaMan wrote:

"VV" wasn't saying that there are two kinds of people, he was saying that all people who would be willing to end their own lives are insensitive bastards. Hmm, I guess he hates everyone in the military then. Also, Until you've been in a situation where no one loves/cares about you, maybe you should kindly shut the fuck up.

Being in the military and committing suicide are two very different things. Even if they do sometimes lead to the same result. Suicide is a selfish act, while when in the military you at least fight for something. Losing your life for a cause is a lot more respectable than losing it out of your own insecurities and cowardice.

Feel free to respond to my post as hatefully as you want, but i doubt itll change my opinions at all. All you would accomplish is further prove the point that you are one of the inconsiderate, world-hating people Valerie was talking about.

[AlphaMan]

Uhm, what.

"simply insulting someone for their point of view is rather uncalled for."

There is a difference between a point of view and plain ignorance.

"Heres the general idea: people who are depressed dont look at the big picture. There are millions of people suffering a lot more than they ever could dream of, yet they still complain about how no one loves them."

If you have to compare your life to someone else's to change the opinion you have on your own life, you must rethink your values. I'm not just depressed. I have been physically and mentally abused for years and years. You have this odd idea that everyone who is suicidal wants to be that way. I'd love another way out, but there isn't one. And believe me (and all of the other suicidal people), I've tried looking for help.

"The point here is that people who complain about their problems are only complaining for the sake of it, not to get any form of assistance."

Once again, there is a difference between emos and suicidal people.

"Even people who think that no one cares have people who care about them. Parents, friends, general well-wishers. If you think you have none of those, you must live alone in a dark room, never venturing outside or interacting with any other humans."

Hahaha. No friends here. No caring parents here. No well-wishers around.

Not everyone has someone who cares about them. Period. If I knew someone who cared about me that I could talk to peacefully and hold a conversation with, I would really consider suicide a lot less.

"Even in some sick twisted world, that still shows that you care. Which means that there has to be some reason for that."

Indeed. The US Court system is idiotic and ridiculous. I will not put my parents in jail just because I choose to end my own life. I will wait until I am 18. Perhaps it is that I have a heart, unlike my parents and everyone else, who have abused me physically and emotionally.

"You arent cheated out of something just because it isnt presented to you on a silver platter."

I've tried to seek help. Please don't consider me some whining little child who does nothing but complain... I have tried to gain help many, many times. I have told so many teachers and adults about my problems, and no one has cared. Why don't you understand this? Not everyone gets the help that they want.

"Just because we are disgusted by the idea of suicide?"

Is it really so wrong, when no one cares about you? Would you care if I died? Would you come to my house crying upon the realization of my death? My family members would only care about the funeral bills... An expense which they will not need to worry about, the way I am going about my suicide.

"Being in the military and committing suicide are two very different things. Even if they do sometimes lead to the same result. Suicide is a selfish act, while when in the military you at least fight for something. Losing your life for a cause is a lot more respectable than losing it out of your own insecurities and cowardice."

Insecurities and cowardice... Perhaps not everyone is born with the ability to be a great hero. Years of physical and mental abuse will beat you down... You'd have insecurities and cowardice too if you went what people like me have gone through.

"Feel free to respond to my post as hatefully as you want,"

I'm still angry, but of course it was wrong how I responded to the initial post. It made me upset. Can you not understand any emotion? If you are curious, no, normally internet things do not make me upset. But when they are dealing with an important real-life subject, it tends to make me upset when someone is so ignorant as to consider suicide to be the "selfish" option.

"All you would accomplish is further prove the point that you are one of the inconsiderate"

I'm very considerate. If I had a friend, I would not want to commit suicide. There is a lot a friend can help with. Emotional problems, insecurity...

Maybe you just don't know what it's like to be without the things that you have. This post is a bit poorly written as I do not have very much energy to put into debates... I was simply seeking out a good Illusion of Gaia fanforum. Feel free to "destroy" it again if you'd like.

I'm not usually even this vocal about this subject. I was just very upset by the initial post. Please just try to understand what it is like to have next to nothing, and have no one there to help you out. It is not fun for anyone.

[EverPhoenix]

well more rational conversation such as this i can understand. you do seem to be very sensitive on the issue. i guess there is a reason for it. even if there is i dont think its fair to shoot your mouth off at people for their opinions. i used to have an issue like that, and in hindsight, i was quite a bastard about it. i also got abused (moreso mentally than physically, i didnt get beaten up or anything) during my school years. it did suck. ive never really been unfortunate enough to never have friends though. ive always had a few people who cared.

your first post did leave a hell of a first impression, though. no harm was meant by valerie's post. it must have hit a nerve in order for you to respond in such a matter. and i apologise if my own post hit further nerves, i merely acted off the first impression, which was evidently misplaced.

this is a good forum, the people here are very nice, and you will be welcomed here. as long as sensitive matters such as this are avoided in future, i think you should enjoy your stay here. even though we have different opinions on the matter, we still respect your opinion, no matter how different it is.

[psychokind]

This is what you call arguing over the internet. It's pointless in any way

[AlphaMan]

psychokind wrote:

arguing over the internet. It's pointless

Sure, tell me it's pointless without giving a reason. :P

[psychokind]

AlphaMan wrote:

psychokind wrote: arguing over the internet. It's pointless Sure, tell me it's pointless without giving a reason.

you can't win, and nobody will give in.

[AlphaMan]

Unfortunately, it seems to be the same in real life most of the time as well.

But that is the fun of it! You get so many reasons why the other person has the viewpoint they hold. And when another argument comes around, you'll be prepared for those reasons to be used again.