"Love it or leave it"

[Freedan]

So this came to mind today while I was working (because I pay so much attention to what I'm doing).

I want to make it clear right away that I'm not trying to pick on the U.S. with this one, but they factor in to it pretty heavily (which I'll explain).

Anyway, "love it or leave it" became a pretty popular phrase in the U.S., especially in the first 3 years or so post-9/11. The country was divided over whether or not to go to war in the Middle East. A lot of folks were all for retaliating to their attackers, but others criticized the idea for various reasons (including criticizing the army and the then-president, George Bush).

Those opposed to the war were often labeled as unpatriotic. If you didn't think America should kick the shit out of their attackers, you must be a sympathizer. And if you have a problem with what America is doing, you should leave the country. "Love it or leave it".

So what are your thoughts on this line of thinking? Is it correct? Justified? Should people leave the stadium if they don't support the home team?

I have a serious problem with that phrase. Telling people to get out of the country because they don't blindly support everything it does reeks of elitism and immaturity to me. It's the equivalent of a group of kids forming a club, and when someone disagrees with the majority, they're told "you're not allowed to be in the club any more". That's 6-year-old thinking.

Thoughts?

[Jason Tandro]

The idiotic nature of the "love it or leave it" phrasology is that its impractical. I'm sure a large number of unpatriotic people would like to the leave the country, but have no means of doing so.

Also (and more disturbing) it thoroughly sets the mind up in a THINGS-WILL-BE-THIS-WAY-FOREVER-AND-IF-YOU-TRY-TO-CHANGE-IT-YOU'RE-AN-UNPATRIOTIC-BASTARD.

I think the phrase "work for it or leave it" would be better. I don't think America is the greatest country in the world, but I think it's a damn good one and it's my home. I realize it has some problems and I do my part to improve them (two big parts of which are actually getting off your ass and voting, but more importantly trying to become a better person yourself to make others lives easier and yours as well.)

[EverPhoenix]

i dont like ultimatum choices like that. i usually prefer middle ground. even if whoever gave the choice thinks they are justified, they have no right to impose something like that on people.

although, if any adjustment would have to be made, id say 'love it, leave it, or shut up'
if you disagree with whats going on, and dont want any trouble for what you think, just keep it to yourself.

[psychokind]

I think it's stupid, there should be an "you have the right to oppose" in every constitution in western countries... we germans are more like

"LOVE IT!" -end of sentence- anyways

[inferiare]

Sheeple can go die in a fire.

For as OMG GOOD!!!111!1ONE the "cause" was for some people, we've done more damage than anything in the Middle East. :/ And in all honesty, I think the minute we pull the military out of Iraq, they're just going to go back to being the same pessimistic assholes they've always been (excuse my language, but it's true): I mean, if you were living in the middle of the desert like that, what would you be thinking or doing? Though I love how the anti-war movement has grown since 9/11. First it was BLOW THOSE MOFOS UP! >O and now it's "...god, aren't we done there yet? BRING OUR TROOPS HOME, YOU MORONS." I think the population has figured out that just jumping the gun (no pun intended) to shove 90% of our military in the Middle East was a bad move that's just ending with our patriots and those who want our country to be safe to a quicker death.

After all, can't protect our country when we have no military here to really speak of since they're all off in other countries (WHERE THEY DON'T BELONG AT ALL) "keeping the peace" elsewhere. Glad to see we're following the words of our forefathers in not getting involved with the affairs of other countries!

[Jason Tandro]

I tend to see the logic in both sides of the argument with this debate. I agree that it seems like we shouldn't interfere in Iraq (Afghanistan is another story), but then there are some good reasons to stay there. Ultimately I'm not a military man (not yet anyways) and so I'm not qualified to make a judgement. The people to make military decisions should be soldiers.

I'll say this to my pacifist friends. If you're anti-war, fine. But don't blame the soldiers. Blame the idiot politicians if you must, but don't blame the soldiers. Because with the exception of the barely 1% of corrupt soldiers (all over the world. With the US I'd say about 9-10% of our soldiers are not so moral) most soldiers are honest patriotic people who want to keep their countries safe.

I'm gonna pause to let psychokind tell me what assholes US soldiers are.

[EverPhoenix]

Jason Tandro wrote:

I'll say this to my pacifist friends. If you're anti-war, fine. But don't blame the soldiers. Blame the idiot politicians if you must, but don't blame the soldiers.

personally, id say the soldiers are almost as much the victims as those poor bastards over in the Middle East