Marijuana

[psychokind]

Uh, psychokind, how many people do you know die from their first time drinking a beer?

Crack cocaine, heroin, and I think LSD can cause instant death on the first use. It's comparatively rare, sure, but not compared to alcohol.

instant death is caused by a overdose, and there's no problem in overdosing alcohol especially if it's your first time drinking. in germany we have about 40.000 people dying of alcohol against 1.500 people dying of hard drugs (all of them, heroin, cocaine...) per year.

plus, LSD is the only known drug you can't overdose and die of (from sheer intoxication).

And what bothers me most is: for somebody who's all about other people being weak, you're sure fast to artificially enhance yourself...

I never said I'm physically better than everyone else you can't just party on for 2 or 3 days without enhancing. same with sports. the weak people I spoke of are weak-minded, because they get addicted to drugs.

[Freedan]

@Freedan: Again that's true, but what makes marijuana so dangerous is it creates a "high" which people eventually need to go to more dangerous drugs to recreate.

So does sniffing glue, or huffing paint.

I know those things have practical uses other than altering consciousness, but anything can be abused in the wrong hands if used the wrong way. If it's used responsibly, marijuana is no more harmful than other more harmful, but perfectly legal substances.

And maybe I'm presuming too much, but it sounds like you're assuming that marijuana users have no desire other than to blitz their brains as some rebellious statement. I know several users myself, and for every "legalize pot, man" stoner you can name, I could name someone who's responsible with it.

[inferiare]

I've had contact highs, and I hated them. That was just at concerts and it makes me never want to do the actual drug. However, that's in a larger amount than what would be used for medical usage.

On the flip side, that would just give anyone who is a friend with a medical marijuana user an excuse to get toked out of their brain and I don't like that. :/ I know there would be plenty of restrictions on people on how they would go about getting a permit to grow the stuff, but it wouldn't be infallible and I don't like that.

[SoulBlazerFan]

I've been in places where it was being done- and I've avoided it. The pugnant odor it produces actually makes me sick to my stomach. I don't know if it's because I'm allergic to it, or just not used to it, but that stuff is just nasty.

I don't know why people would smoke it, when theres all kinds of glue around to sniff... and it's much cheaper.

[Fazermint]

I've been in places where it was being done- and I've avoided it. The pugnant odor it produces actually makes me sick to my stomach. I don't know if it's because I'm allergic to it, or just not used to it, but that stuff is just nasty.

I don't know why people would smoke it, when theres all kinds of glue around to sniff... and it's much cheaper.

I agree man, it smells like a sock that has been peed on by an army of rats. Going to Amsterdam to eat somewhere is not a good plan, the stench of stoners ruins your appetite XD

[Jason Tandro]

@Freedan:

There are people out there who can smoke a joint, not make anything of it, and go about their normal life.

I was just saying that the people who DO act in that "look at me I'm cool cause I smoke pot" are what tick me off.

Out of curiosity, are you saying there's another reason to smoke pot outside of altering your mental state? Well, not counting pain relief.


@psychokind: You don't need to prove you're stronger than most. We've all seen pictures of you, lol. Isn't that right Raini?

[Blade]

My 2 cents (mind, didn't read every post in this thread):
Some time ago I came up with my own addiction theory. If you have a "full" life where you don't need to compensate anything, weak drugs are imo less likely to get you addicted, since you don't compensate anything by using them.

"My life is cool. Oh, let's try weed...whoo, beeing high is awesome! *sobers up* back to my life is cool."

But if you have 99 problems at home, at school or mentally and life sucks generally..
"My life sucks. Oh, let's try weed...whoo, it's like, all my problems are so far away! *sobers up* back to shitty life. Hey, I wanna have that state of mind again!" *klinksch!! addicition kicks in*

By buying an illegal weak drug, you're likely to get in contact with not-so weak drugs aswell.
A formerly addicted friend of mine said: rolling a joint is too much of a hazzle, with LSD or Extacy, you just swallow one and off you go!

I've seen people go to shit, and they started out with Marijuana. I don't think Psychokinds mental willpower or wellbeeing could handle fucking heroine.
But same goes for legal substances aswell. If you do/take/drink something for compensation/releaving, you're always in danger of getting addicted. Be it drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, internet habits, sugar, fat; you name it, you can get addicted to it.

[psychokind]

I've seen people go to shit, and they started out with Marijuana. I don't think Psychokinds mental willpower or wellbeeing could handle fucking heroine.

sniffing and smoking yes, intravenous not. but that's impossible, because you're getting instant physical addiction. even if you're not mentally addicted. that's mostly because heroine is actually the ONLY drug that influences your body with artificial material (so to say it's the ultimate drug in comparison).

the rest is a nice objective view of things blade, and if I wasn't me, I'd see it that way also

@jason: I'm definetely not that's just looks!

[Freedan]

Out of curiosity, are you saying there's another reason to smoke pot outside of altering your mental state? Well, not counting pain relief.

For the same reason people indulge in the other vices already mentioned... primarily for the relaxation and stress relief it provides.

I'll reiterate that marijuana is no different than cigarettes or alcohol. If anything, it's a favourable alternative, considering the lack of (proven) long term health problems. Not for lack of trying on the government's part... every once in a while, a study comes along that shows how awful it is (followed by another non-government study that shows otherwise).

There are even some benefits; a low dose acts as an anti-depressant, for example. An antiemetic, too. Though I'm sure that's not the main reason anyone would use it, it's a positive side effect.

The 'gateway drug' thing sounds like a scare tactic to me. "If people do this, then they'll do something much more undesirable".... which is a fallacy of the slippery slope variety. Yes, many users of hard drugs have confirmed using marijuana in the past, but was it ever proven that their use of hard drugs was because of using marijuana? Correlation =/= causation. It's just as easy to argue that marijuana provides an alternative to hard drugs. Why use something dangerous when there's something safer available? Because you need more marijuana to get the same effect, since you've (eventually) developed a tolerance?

No problem. Use more marijuana. Because as far as I'm aware, there has not been a single confirmed case of death by marijuana overdose.

Marijuana is a safer alternative to what's already legally available. The government is not only wasting money fighting it, but passing on money they could raise from taxes. And considering the deficits most governments are facing, it's foolish to let that money be tossed in the garbage.

[inferiare]

The only real problem with weed is the fact that you DO end up a smoked out stoner. I know someone that can't function without it at this point, and Maz's cat got smoked out when we was still a kitten and has a ton of brain issues. It may not be like that for some, but for others it is.

Smoking a small amount for some is most likely ok. For some, not all, I mean. However, for others it might not be a gateway drug because they know that something else can kill them just by trying it once and weed won't kill them of overdose. However, smoking a ton of it, or even the kind laced with another drug CAN get them killed. Laced maryjane (or even a large amount) and a car ride can land them and anyone else caught in a crash in a casket or in crit condition in the hospital. They're no better than drunk drivers at that point.

[Freedan]

But that brings me back to my original point again.

However, smoking a ton of it, or even the kind laced with another drug CAN get them killed.

So can mixing booze and painkillers/antidepressants.

Laced maryjane (or even a large amount) and a car ride can land them and anyone else caught in a crash in a casket or in crit condition in the hospital. They're no better than drunk drivers at that point.

Which sort of suggests that pot really isn't different than alcohol.

But if the government were to regulate it, there wouldn't be laced stuff readily available. People could lace their own, if they felt compelled to for some reason ..... but if there were safe places to buy it from, you wouldn't have to worry about buying tainted stuff.

The only difference here is that marijuana is somehow seen as immoral, and thus, a taboo in society. But why?

[Manibrandr System]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis

Come back after you've read this. Every drug that you take, be it medicinal or recreational IS going to have their own risks and side-effects. Painkillers do not JUST magically eliminate pain, they differ a lot in the chemical pathways they take to block pain signals from being either transmitted or perceived, and not everyone's biochemistry is the same, there will always be cases where an FDA-approved drug does not do the job and turns out to have some really bad side effects unique to that person.

There are plenty of pharmaceuticals that can also be used as recreational drugs, the only difference between them is their legality and that cannabis has been shown to be less addictive than caffeine, and with new methods of dosing, including putting it in food, it is in fact very safe to take.

One more point, when it comes to addictions, physical and mental are one and the same, there is no known wall that separates them.

PS, It's shit like this that makes me want to come here less and less :

I can hear Ratty or Valerie claiming that my opinion is invalidated by my obvious personal vendetta. That I have no credibility in this debate.

Frankly, I could care less about your vendettas, what's worrying is that it seems that every other month you seem to want to find someone to pick a fight with in this forum, like with Miss Prime Blue, and THIS shit right here is what I would call a passive-aggressive attempt to restart a flamefight.

[psychokind]

One more point, when it comes to addictions, physical and mental are one and the same, there is no known wall that separates them.

oh there is, and it's the mind. and this makes the difference, be it in ones favor or detriment. although I'd say that most of the times, physical addiction is much worse than mental.

[Jason Tandro]

Frankly, I could care less about your vendettas, what's worrying is that it seems that every other month you seem to want to find someone to pick a fight with in this forum, like with Miss Prime Blue, and THIS shit right here is what I would call a passive-aggressive attempt to restart a flamefight.

Not really, just that you and Ratty are usually the ones to comment along those lines. If it offends you I will cheerfully withdraw my statement.