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psychokind
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Postpsychokind Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:46 am   Post subject: Organ donation Reply with quote

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haha I have a topic!!

I will be donating bone marrow next week for a leukemia patient next week. pretty interesting to see what lengths we go to save a single life.

I was on a NGOs donating list because my father had leukemia twice (and survived), so there was one of those events were people gather at school gyms to get tested and me and all my friends went there.

that said, although my father only lives because of a working system, I am not really a fan of it. I don't want ANYbody to receive my organs/blood/whatever, I want a little bit of control. imagening that a criminal survives longer because of me just makes me not wanna participate. I still do, of course, but I do it in a way that my wife can make all decisions so at least I directly didn't make the choice.

are you guys registered donaters? if so, why/why not?
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:13 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I am a registered organ donor - it comes in as a little checkbox when we get our drivers license. My general view of it is once I'm dead if any of parts will help somebody else, more power to them. This body is just meat, it's not who I am.

As far as your concern about bad people living because of your organs, let's set aside the fact that (at least in my country) many people who aren't criminals aren't even considered able to get transplants because of X health condition or Y circumstance. What you pose there is a moralistic argument that is philosophically fascinating.

"What if my organs go to keep a criminal alive?"
Then a person would be alive through not fault of your own.

But why not take it a step further? Theoretically any act we do could be used for evil. I helped fix many phones in my days at tech support and statistically speaking at least 5 of the people I helped were using it to watch kiddie porn. Hell 1 or 2 may have even been involved in human trafficking. But surprisingly I don't lose sleep over the phones I fixed.

And doctors actually have more direct responsibility than that. They have to patch up people they know are bad and have done horrific things because it is their duty.

I am known to have more than a dark side of me and am also known to be rigid and hypocritical when it comes to the meting out of "justice". I believe many people on this planet deserve to die. But do I believe we need to worry that a bad person's life was extended? Not really. I can get feeling guilty, but a person's actions are the responsibility of that person alone.

Went off on a whole thing there, I apologize if that wasn't the topic you were going for lol. Very Happy
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psychokind
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Postpsychokind Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:46 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Jason Tandro wrote:
I am a registered organ donor - it comes in as a little checkbox when we get our drivers license. My general view of it is once I'm dead if any of parts will help somebody else, more power to them. This body is just meat, it's not who I am.

As far as your concern about bad people living because of your organs, let's set aside the fact that (at least in my country) many people who aren't criminals aren't even considered able to get transplants because of X health condition or Y circumstance. What you pose there is a moralistic argument that is philosophically fascinating.

"What if my organs go to keep a criminal alive?"
Then a person would be alive through not fault of your own.

But why not take it a step further? Theoretically any act we do could be used for evil. I helped fix many phones in my days at tech support and statistically speaking at least 5 of the people I helped were using it to watch kiddie porn. Hell 1 or 2 may have even been involved in human trafficking. But surprisingly I don't lose sleep over the phones I fixed.

And doctors actually have more direct responsibility than that. They have to patch up people they know are bad and have done horrific things because it is their duty.

I am known to have more than a dark side of me and am also known to be rigid and hypocritical when it comes to the meting out of "justice". I believe many people on this planet deserve to die. But do I believe we need to worry that a bad person's life was extended? Not really. I can get feeling guilty, but a person's actions are the responsibility of that person alone.

Went off on a whole thing there, I apologize if that wasn't the topic you were going for lol. Very Happy


was exactly what I was going for Wink

it's way more pragmatical for me. I work for the government deporting immigrants. the crimes these middle-east men commit are unfathomable. they get hurt very often when fighting police, and everytime they get patched up by our free healthcare.

add in the gypsies, who only come here for a few months to get money out of our asylum process. they get the same free health care and don't even have to pay the extra fees our unemployed people have to pay. if they bring a demented elderly, she gets a 30.000/month treatment in our reitrement homes.

since we have millions of these, the likelyhood of me helping one of those people with adding in all the criminals we have here anyway - I don't want that. I know that is practically impossible, but I want some form of choice, and be it as minimistically as "noone convicted of capital crimes". I am not a doctor, I don't have a responsibility to help everyone.
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PostJason Tandro Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:28 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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psychokind wrote:

since we have millions of these, the likelyhood of me helping one of those people with adding in all the criminals we have here anyway - I don't want that. I know that is practically impossible, but I want some form of choice, and be it as minimistically as "noone convicted of capital crimes". I am not a doctor, I don't have a responsibility to help everyone.


It's not so much about responsibility as personal morality; not to say you are immoral if you don't give organs but rather people who do have often said "this is where I lie on X issue."

I consider my reasoning to pragmatic in its own way. To me it feels like I'd be letting otherwise viable bits go to waste, like throwing out slightly old food that could be used to feed a starving family.

You say that you have benefited from this system in the past (well your father has) so what I am forced to ask is "what if the donor who helped him thought the way you do?" Furthermore my original point still stands. You pay taxes I assume and your taxes go to support this system you disagree with. Would you want to just stop paying taxes?

What if there was a system where you could determine who exactly was able to take your organs? Like a checkbox that said "no criminals, trueborn Germans, dudes wit awesome beards", lol? Cool
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PostYet One More Idiot Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:56 pm   Post subject: Reply with quote

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I actually registered as an organ donor not more than a couple of months ago.

I know neither of my parents have ever done it, but my sister I'm well aware donates blood regularly (I don't like being repeatedly stuck with needles...not scared of them, just don't like being a friggin' pin cushion if I can help it xD).

That said, although neither of our parents has chosen to go in for organ donation, they have both been long aware that I am happy for my organs to help other people after I die. After all, after I'm dead, this body won't be any more use to me, so it might as well help someone else if possible.

(I'm not even sure if my body parts would be of any use for donation though, tbh, due to my Psoriasis, which is an autoimmune disease and thus might make them perfectly useless...)

Actually, I don't know the law regarding organ donation elsewhere, but here in the UK you:
a) have to personally opt-in to being an organ donor. There is currently a push to switch this stance so that everyone is assumed to be an organ donor UNLESS YOU DELIBERATELY OPT OUT. This has not become law yet, but might.
b) after you die, before they can dissect you remains to harvest all organs that might be usefully donated, THEY THEN STILL HAVE TO GET PERMISSION FROM YOUR NEXT OF KIN TO DO SO.

...re-read that last sentence.

So, you decide to be an organ donor. You've always made it very clear to your loved ones that you want to be an organ donor. You deliberately and unambiguously register for your organ donation card, which you keep tucked in your wallet from then on.
Then the unfortunate happens, and you die. The doctors find your organ donor card, look you up in the register, and yep there you are! Great! They go to your next of kin and tell them you were a registered organ donor.
Your next of kin decides they don't want to have their loved one's deceased form cut up and given away to other people, and says no.
Your lasting wish, for your organs to help other people live after your death? Utterly ignored.

That's how the law currently works here in the UK though.

Stupid yes? Biting
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psychokind
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Postpsychokind Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:10 am   Post subject: Reply with quote

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Jason Tandro wrote:
You say that you have benefited from this system in the past (well your father has) so what I am forced to ask is "what if the donor who helped him thought the way you do?" Furthermore my original point still stands. You pay taxes I assume and your taxes go to support this system you disagree with. Would you want to just stop paying taxes?

What if there was a system where you could determine who exactly was able to take your organs? Like a checkbox that said "no criminals, trueborn Germans, dudes wit awesome beards", lol? Cool


well, I would just do that: check some checkboxes, and don't check others. the black and white view on this topic is manmade, we think it's immoral to treat humans differently based on their past actions.
I know this will never change. in Germany this is, even before a moral, a legal issue. constitution forbids the government and partly semi-governmental institutions (like hospitals) to treat differently because of race, religion and so on. you know the drill. this is pretty much unchangeable.

I would check out taxes and check in others too if I could. like I pay church taxes voluntarily - I believe in god and the institution of the church. Germany has one of the lowest acceptance of taxes in the industrial nations because of the low control and insight we have on how they are spent.

as I said, in the end I'm gonna donate everything anyway because I let my wife decide and she's a good person. works for my conscience somehow Very Happy

Quote:
Actually, I don't know the law regarding organ donation elsewhere, but here in the UK you:
a) have to personally opt-in to being an organ donor. There is currently a push to switch this stance so that everyone is assumed to be an organ donor UNLESS YOU DELIBERATELY OPT OUT. This has not become law yet, but might.
b) after you die, before they can dissect you remains to harvest all organs that might be usefully donated, THEY THEN STILL HAVE TO GET PERMISSION FROM YOUR NEXT OF KIN TO DO SO.


same discussion in Germany some time ago. I'm personally all for the Opt-in. the hurdles are way higher in Germany than in other countries though, because killing of braindead humans to donate organs is legally and historically tied to the euthanising the nazis did.
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