What Makes a Good Zelda Game?

[tay120n64]

[Again, avoiding derailing a topic]

I consider twilight princess to be on of teh worst zelda games, took all the good things from OoT and still made a bad game.

What? Twilight Princess was like Ocarina of Time 2.0. If anything the only things that were bad about TP was:

A) Very little gameplay originality. Like I said, OoT 2.0

B) Not a lot of incentive to explore, and few side-quests

I can see very easily how TP would not appeal to a lot of people, but I can't see how it's a bad game. I think it's one of the series finest and most polished.

To me, the best (by which I mean to say, most well-rounded) Zelda games would be:

A Link to the Past
Link's Awakening
Ocarina of Time
Twilight Princess

Though it's true that the original Zelda should be on there too, ALttP and LA expanded on TLoZ, in a way making it obsolete. The same with TP and OoT. If you've played OoT anytime recently, you'd know what I'm talking about. The game just isn't relevant anymore. It's still a good game, but Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess all had far smoother controls. Yeah, they may not have been as fresh, but I will stand by my opinion the idea that TP > OoT.

If I were going to say which Zelda games were really the worst, I'd have to say it would be:

Phantom Hourglass
Wind Waker
Majora's Mask

And the thing is... None of those were bad games! WW suffered from tedious gameplay and lack of dungeons, MM suffered from shortness and an odd premise, and PH suffered from a complete lack of exploration or any form of difficulty whatsoever! (well, the Ocean King Temple was confusing, but you know) A linear Zelda is never good.

However, each of those games, though not appealing to everyone, was GOOD! Majora's Mask was dark, compelling, challenging, and intuitive. Wind Waker was engaging, colorful, and had excellent combat. And the stylus controls for Phantom Hourglass are among the best on DS.

Maybe I'm just ranting, lol. I tend to go overboard occasionally. If you don't mind me asking though Flamez, why would you say that TP is one of the worst?

[inferiare]

If I were going to say which Zelda games were really the worst, I'd have to say it would be:

Those CDi games

I fixed that for you.

...if only because I really liked Wind Waker and Majora's Mask. I didn't get to play Phantom Hourglass, so I can't speak up for that one.

[EverPhoenix]

i havent played many of the zelda games, so my opinion wouldnt be as valid as someone with a wider knowledge of the game.

ive played:

Ocarina of Time
A Link to the Past
Oracle of Ages
Oracle of Seasons
Twilight Princess

Link's Awakening (not finished)

so far my favourites are Twilight Princess and a Link to the Past.

Twilight Princess coz theres so much stuff to do between dungeons (not necessarily sidequests), the puzzles aren't mind-numbingly hard (honestly, that thing in Seasons involving the pirates... no way id have gotten that without a faq), and the graphics look really good.

A Link to the Past because of just how awesome it is. Awesome items, good controls, graphics are sweet (yes i know its on snes, but i think they still look awesome), one of the better soundtracks ive seen in a game..


Id agree with tay, TP was pretty much OoT 2.0. being that, it added a more complex story (outside the generic 'save the princess from the bad guy' present in most zelda games), and improved the game in general.
OoT at first didnt impress me much, because all id heard about it was how awesome it was, how its the best game ever.. etc. and then it turned out to be just a good zelda game, imo not deserving of all the hype. i understand that if id played it on the n64 when it came out, i would have found it the best thing since pokemon.

in answer to the topic, i think that a good zelda game should be close to what TP was getting at. keeping the traditional zelda formula (set of 3 dungeons, miniboss, set of 4-7 dungeons, big boss), while adding a real story to keep you distracted from the fact that youre just grinding dungeons. then again, thats just me.

maybe some people want to grind the same dungeons game after game, and others might want a whole new formula. but if nintendo has proven themselves to be good at anything, its spitting out new games that follow a very basic mould (ie mario series, zelda series, pokemon series, metroid series).

[psychokind]

I agree with tay. MM is one of my favorite zeldas, but I know that objectively seen it was only a good game.

[subjectnamehere]

Oooh, good question.

I have played The legend of Zelda, Adventure of Link, A Link to the past, Link's Awakening, Ocarina of time, Majora's Mask, both the Oracles, The wind waker, The minish cap, Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass. I would say I like Ocarina and Waker the most out of these, and Hourglass the least. I think a good Zelda game should be innovative but stay true to the series' concept at the same time.

Am I the only one who's looking forward to Spirit Tracks? I didn't like the controls in Hourglass, but the concept of Link riding a train is just... brilliant. Win.

[tay120n64]

@ Raini: Those games are not affiliated with the series, because they weren't officiated by Nintendo, so bleh

@ Ever: OoT is one of the best games ever, but only because of its relevance to gaming as a whole (ie, yes you needed to have played it in the '90s)

@subjectnamehere: I'm reserving my judgment on Spirit Tracks. My main concern is that the game will be far too linear, much like PH. I do agree however, that Link being a Train Conductor, although strange, is kind of cool.

[Jason Tandro]

Zelda has three time honored traditions which need to be upheld for a Zelda game to be good:

1. Innovative combat
Swords, bombs, bows, magic staves, hookshots, boomerangs... need I continue?

2. Great Puzzles
Dungeons are truly the heart of every Zelda game, and the main reason why we play them.

3. Immersive world!
This is the one that I see some of the newer games struggling with. The push to be linear destroys what made the first zelda games great. An amazing, essentially open-ended world with lots to do and lots to get excited about. In that respect I consider Zelda II and Link To The Past the two greatest games in the series, with OoT clinging from the coattails.

Twilight Princess's graphical and worldview changes were welcome, but they lost the free-roaming spirit of the original game. In OoT, once you were done with the Kokiri Forest you could essentially travel to your hearts content. Sure you needed certain items to progress in certain areas, but it's always been that way.

[Freedan]

^ Agreed, except for the combat... it kind of stopped being 'innovative' after the first couple of times they did it. That hardly means it's bad, but Zelda games tend to introduce only 1 or 2 unique items per game (not counting new items with similar functions to old ones). And around 90% of combat can be handled with the sword alone.

One major aspect that I think most people overlook is that a Zelda game needs a good story. LttP is, to me, easily one of the best Zeldas. Part of the reason for that is because that was the first Zelda where you actually felt like you were accomplishing something. As you completed dungeons, you were given more snippets of the story until you had a good idea of what was going on.

I believe OoT did that the best... having the story unfold as the game went on. You knew why you were doing what you were doing, and you felt a sense of accomplishment for doing it.

Zelda is supposed to be about exploration too... enjoying every little thing not related to the main quest. How many hours have we spent at the fishing hole? Searching for hidden secrets, collecting all the collectibles, not because any of it is necessary, but because it's there, and that's what it's for. It's just a joy to take a break from the main quest and find it all.

Puzzles and themed dungeons (forest, fire, water) are pretty much staples of the series, so I won't say much about them. Just keep the puzzles challenging, but doable. And make the bosses challenging, damn it.

And we need a threatening villain (goes with the story). I believe Ganondorf is one of the greatest villains gaming has ever seen, so I have absolutely no problem if they use him again for the next Zelda. Just don't do like TP, and introduce him 2/3 of the way through.

I'm sure I left something out, but hell if I can remember what it is right now.

[tay120n64]

Ganondorf is great and all, but I'm tired of him.

Same with Link.

I'd like to learn more about Hylian history and mythology. Something that can only be done if they change the way they present the story (i.e. getting new main characters).

[Freedan]

After 20 years, I don't think many people would take a hero other than Link or Zelda seriously.

[EverPhoenix]

Ganondorf is great and all, but I'm tired of him.

Same with Link.

I'd like to learn more about Hylian history and mythology. Something that can only be done if they change the way they present the story (i.e. getting new main characters).

although twilight princess did have midna and zant. zant being the main bad guy, until you beat him and find out that its ganondorf... again.

midna actually was useful to the story, unlike the other companions they throw you with...

hey! listen!
//i had that as my message tone once, annoyed the shit out of EVERYONE

but yeah, being a zelda game, its always going to have link as the main playable character, and you can put money on the fact that zelda and ganondorf will make an appearance too. its not a zelda game unless it has link in it.

i agree on the idea of learning hylian mythology, but the 3 goddesses, the triforce and the eternal battle between various generations of link and ganondorf have been common to pretty much all games. they could explain a whole lot more, without needing to change the main character.

like making a new game that actually involves the myths, and, for example, one of the creatures from back in the olden days when din was still throwing mountains around.

[psychokind]

Ganondorf is great and all, but I'm tired of him.

Same with Link.

I'd like to learn more about Hylian history and mythology. Something that can only be done if they change the way they present the story (i.e. getting new main characters).

I would have appreciated it if they had continued from Oot until LttP. it was a good idea lettin MM taking place after Oot, and we could have learned about hyrule and link developing year by year.

[Blade]

although twilight princess did have midna and zant. zant being the main bad guy, until you beat him and find out that its ganondorf... again.

For fucks sake! Thanks for spoiling -.-

[EverPhoenix]

although twilight princess did have midna and zant. zant being the main bad guy, until you beat him and find out that its ganondorf... again.

For fucks sake! Thanks for spoiling -.-

shit, sorry... but youll still enjoy how it comes around.


my first view of twilight princess was the final boss battle. the big boy of all spoilers >_<

[Blade]

I'm sorry, what I wrote sounds more flipped than I intended...

I'll just avoid this and every other Zelda thread until I'm through with it...!