Americans Held In Iran

[Jason Tandro]

Here's What Happened:

The Times wrote:

TEHRAN, Iran — Iran said Monday it would try three Americans jailed since crossing the border from Iraq in July, a step certain to aggravate the U.S. at a time when Tehran is locked in a standoff with the West over its nuclear program. Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki did not say when proceedings would begin or specify the charge other than to say the Americans had "suspicious aims." In November, however, authorities accused the Americans of spying. There are concerns in the U.S. that Iran could use them as bargaining chips in talks over its nuclear program or in seeking the return of Iranians they say are missing. Relatives and the U.S government say the three were innocent tourists on an adventure hike in northern Iraq and accidentally crossed into Iran, where they were arrested on July 31. "They will be tried by Iran's judiciary system and verdicts will be issued," Mottaki said at a news conference, without elaborating in detail. The Americans - Shane Bauer, 27, Sarah Shourd, 31, and Josh Fattal, 27 - were detained by Iranian authorities after crossing an unmarked border from northern Iraq. At a Nov. 9 news conference, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran's judiciary would deal with the Americans, and he noted that Iran accuses the United States of holding several of its citizens. In particular, he drew a link between the case of the three Americans and the trial in the U.S. of Amir Hossein Ardebili, an Iranian who faces up to 140 years in prison after pleading guilty to plotting to ship sensitive U.S. military technology to Iran. According to court papers, Ardebili worked as a procurement agent for the Iranian government and acquired thousands of components, including military aircraft parts, night vision devices, communications equipment and Kevlar. U.S. federal authorities targeted him in 2004 after he contacted an undercover storefront set up in Philadelphia to investigate illegal arms trafficking.

Here's What Some Random Time's Editor Thinks About It:

Some Random Time's Editor wrote:

This story, about Iran arresting U.S. hikers, is a repeat of a thing that has been going on too long. Here are these three Americans--Shane Bauer, 27, Sarah Shourd, 31, and Josh Fattal, 27, setting off on a hike in Iraq and walking into Iran and getting arrested for "espionage." I assume they are not spies--would the CIA send people into Iran as hikers?--and that they are in that sense, innocent. I also assume that Iran knows this, and that they are trying them to make a political point and to have leverage with the United States, and that they will convict them and then exchange them for some concession from our government. What I can't join in is any outpouring of sympathy for Shane Bauer, Sarah Shourd and Josh Fattal, and the condemnation of the Iranian government. Iran's government is not the sort I want to live under, but it is not my government. It's their government. It's a government sensitive to its borders--over sensitive from the American point of view, but it is entirely within its rights to arrest Shane Bauer, Sarah Shourd and Josh Fattal and put them on trial. My annoyance is at Americans who think because they are backed by the most powerful government in the world, and they have Human Rights, they can go for a jolly, healthful and invigorating hike on the Iranian border or on the North Korean border or swim across the lake in Burma to see Aung San Suu Kyi, or cross some other forbidden line. To think and act this way is to be a damn fool, and I think more Americans ought to say so.

To be honest, I think this guy is an idiot who over-simplifies the issue. Iran is using this as an excuse to bully America. Not to sound too arrogant, but no country (except China who basically owns our ass) has any right to bully us. I'll grant you some people may think we're bullying Iraq and Afghanistan by telling their governments they can't enslave their people and blow up civilian buildings, but hey, we're just assholes like that.

If Iran is really so pathetic to use civilian hostages as a means of getting leverage, I think they need a lesson in humility. But of course Obama will buckle like a belt. Damn this ticks me off.

[Freedan]

Iran didn't arrest them because they're 'sensitive to their borders'. Of course they're doing it for leverage.

" "They will be tried by Iran's judiciary system and verdicts will be issued," Mottaki said at a news conference, without elaborating in detail. "

Iran's judiciary system is a farce. When they were holding trials for protesters after their last election, does anyone honestly think the trials were fair? They've already decided that these three will be convicted, the trial is purely for show.

If those three are guilty of anything, it's of poor taste for hiking destinations. The Middle East is a dangerous, violent, war-torn shithole, run by tyrants with no qualms about killing innocent people for its own agenda.

[Jason Tandro]

It's ironic how a Holy Land can be so desanctified.

[psychokind]

Quote:

My annoyance is at Americans who think because they are backed by the most powerful government in the world, and they have Human Rights, they can go for a jolly, healthful and invigorating hike on the Iranian border or on the North Korean border or swim across the lake in Burma to see Aung San Suu Kyi, or cross some other forbidden line. To think and act this way is to be a damn fool, and I think more Americans ought to say so.

absolutely right. whenever I hear about some foolish german idiot tourists in the news getting kidnapped in Jemen or whatever dust-country, I feel no sympathy and I don't want ONE cent of my taxes to get wasted for these people.

not even pointing out that people think they are backed up by powerful governments, these people are so stupid that they don't think about anything at all before touristing such countries.

[tay120n64]

Gotta agree with psychokind on this one. I mean, seriously, who goes on a "hike" in such an unstable environment? It's their own damn fault, and in the great spirit of the Darwin Awards, they deserve exactly what's coming to them.

Whether or not Iran is using them to get to the US isn't the question. Of course they are. That much is obvious. But still, its their own dumbasses that got them into it. I say leave them be.

[Jason Tandro]

psychokind wrote:

not even pointing out that people think they are backed up by powerful governments, these people are so stupid that they don't think about anything at all before touristing such countries.

Yeah... Hitler was just vacationing in Poland! (JUST KIDDING!)

@tay/psycho: Well I'm certainly not saying these people aren't dumbasses, but if we condemned everybody who did something stupid, then we'd be a much smaller civilization.

[psychokind]

Jason Tandro wrote:

psychokind wrote: not even pointing out that people think they are backed up by powerful governments, these people are so stupid that they don't think about anything at all before touristing such countries. Yeah... Hitler was just vacationing in Poland! (JUST KIDDING!) @tay/psycho: Well I'm certainly not saying these people aren't dumbasses, but if we condemned everybody who did something stupid, then we'd be a much smaller civilization.

no problem with a much smaller civilization here

[tay120n64]

psychokind wrote:

Jason Tandro wrote: psychokind wrote: not even pointing out that people think they are backed up by powerful governments, these people are so stupid that they don't think about anything at all before touristing such countries. Yeah... Hitler was just vacationing in Poland! (JUST KIDDING!) @tay/psycho: Well I'm certainly not saying these people aren't dumbasses, but if we condemned everybody who did something stupid, then we'd be a much smaller civilization. no problem with a much smaller civilization here

You know, I could so totally be okay with that.

[Jason Tandro]

tay120n64 wrote:

psychokind wrote: Jason Tandro wrote: psychokind wrote: not even pointing out that people think they are backed up by powerful governments, these people are so stupid that they don't think about anything at all before touristing such countries. Yeah... Hitler was just vacationing in Poland! (JUST KIDDING!) @tay/psycho: Well I'm certainly not saying these people aren't dumbasses, but if we condemned everybody who did something stupid, then we'd be a much smaller civilization. no problem with a much smaller civilization here You know, I could so totally be okay with that.

Well I think we've already pegged psychokind as a Machiavellian passive eugenisist. Perhaps we could create a master race...

but it wouldn't be based on ethnicity... just on the people who frequented TerraEarth...

Instead of the Aryan... it'd be the Arkyan.

[psychokind]

Jason Tandro wrote:

tay120n64 wrote: psychokind wrote: Jason Tandro wrote: psychokind wrote: not even pointing out that people think they are backed up by powerful governments, these people are so stupid that they don't think about anything at all before touristing such countries. Yeah... Hitler was just vacationing in Poland! (JUST KIDDING!) @tay/psycho: Well I'm certainly not saying these people aren't dumbasses, but if we condemned everybody who did something stupid, then we'd be a much smaller civilization. no problem with a much smaller civilization here You know, I could so totally be okay with that. Well I think we've already pegged psychokind as a Machiavellian passive eugenisist. Perhaps we could create a master race... but it wouldn't be based on ethnicity... just on the people who frequented TerraEarth... Instead of the Aryan... it'd be the Arkyan.

I take this as a compliment, as ever arkyan, amazing play of words

besides, do you know what happens when you take brother and sister mouse and let them make incest, and their children incest and so on? after several generations, you have created "super-"mice without genetical flaws. awesome, isn't it?

[Jason Tandro]

true, but for the first few generations you have to deal with the butter-eating banjo-playing mice.

Ever see Deliverance?

[inferiare]

...sadly, I've had the idea of shoving the idiots (in my point of view) on to their own Island of Stupid once I rule the world (yes, I have a list of things I intend to change when I'm ruler of the world) because dealing with constant stupid and no common sense drives me up the wall.

[arkisdabomb]

rainichan wrote:

...sadly, I've had the idea of shoving the idiots (in my point of view) on to their own Island of Stupid once I rule the world (yes, I have a list of things I intend to change when I'm ruler of the world) because dealing with constant stupid and no common sense drives me up the wall.

Force them to fight to the death and the winner gets to be your court jester.

[psychokind]

Jason Tandro wrote:

true, but for the first few generations you have to deal with the butter-eating banjo-playing mice.

you gotta kill / let die the ones with incest failures. there will always be some healthy ones, just let them make enough