A crappy childhood, and present problems

[Freedan]

Ok, so here's the deal with someone I know from work.

A woman I work with recently broke up with her boyfriend (finally). There are several reasons for this.

He has an anger problem, for one. He can lose his temper over the tiniest thing, or nothing at all. He is constantly angry, and bitter, and hurtful. He's physically and emotionally abusive. He is arrogant, and self-righteous, and will go out of his way to make someone's life hell if he feels they've done anything to him. Sometimes, he'll upset people for amusement (he loves the drama it creates). To say he treats people poorly is a massive understatement, and pretty much everyone that's ever known the guy would agree with all of the above.

Everything I just mentioned, this woman was on the receiving end of. She stayed with him longer than any sane woman would have, but eventually couldn't stand it any more.

Now that they're broken up, he's taken to stalking her. He follows her in his car, keeps track of where she goes, and has threatened her ex-fiance (who she's been spending some time with) with violence, and with death. On two occasions, he nearly caused a traffic accident while following them, including nearly running them off the road the second time.

But here's the 'disclaimer':

To say this man had a miserable childhood would be a very mild way of saying it. He was taunted and bullied mercilessly as a child (mostly over being half deaf), his father was not exactly a shining example of a role model (being exactly like I described this guy), he has dealt with Bi-Polar Disorder all his life, and he lost a brother early in his adult years. In other words, he had a pretty shitty life since forever.

So, my question is: does his unfortunate past rationalize his actions at all now? A couple of people I know - even his ex-girlfriend - want to hate him for how horrible he is to everyone, and how awful he was to her. But they can't bring themselves to do it, because he's led such a shitty life. Eye for an eye on a massive scale; everyone was rotten to him all his life, so he's rotten to everyone.

What sayest thou?

[Blade]

I say he needs psychological help. His past is no excuse for his actions if he doesn't seek help.

[SoulBlazerFan]

In short: No.

I can't say I had a as bad a childhood as he did- but I was bullied too, mercislessly. I had emotionally unstable parent(s) whom both fought and treated each other like crap, and sometimes, that crap fell down on me and my siblings.

There are things that I've learned over the years about my parents that would more than likely destroy even the strongest people. Hell, I'm reeling from something I recently learned.

That said, I did do some of the stuff you mentioned when I was younger. I was crappy towards other people to make myself feel better about my own crappy situation. But I grew out of it. You become an adult, and learn to live with the crap. You can be in the most loving home, and turn out to be a monster. You can be in the most broken home, and turn out to be the sweetest person in the world. Weaker people resort to turning into a-holes, it's the stronger that can endure and persevere.

[Blade]

I don't agree with SBiF. There's no point-rating on which things are in what way bad - you always have to see the whole individual.

The things he went through were too much for him, where you endured and grew stronger. I mainly feel sorry for him, and I hope he gets some help one day - nothing in life is unchangeable.

Of course, that's not to say that he shouldn't be punished if he violates the freedom of others (stalking, threatening).

I hope he gets some help, otherwise he'll never enjoy his life and waste it to hate and anger.

[tay120n64]

Nothing in this world validates being mean to another individual. Absolutely nothing.

More on topic: If this guy isn't going to try to overcome his past, either by himself or with help, then he deserves zero pity or remorse.

[Freedan]

On the subject of getting help, I suppose I should add:

He has tried a couple of methods (though I doubt his dedication to either one): medication for the Bi-Polar stuff (which basically turned him in to a zombie until he got put on another medication that turned out to not work), and counseling (which I don't know the details about, but it didn't last long).

His then-girlfriend was with him through those things, but neither were successful. Since then, I don't believe he's tried any other methods.

[chicken]

its his own choice of what he is doing with his future. he might have had a very bad childhood but that doesnt mean that he cant evolve to a strong, correct person. either he does it by himself or he seeks extern help. if you force him into treatment, he may change in time when you break his spirit and form him into ANYTHING new (in our example: something acceptable in society), but he actually didnt learn anything. he must see for himself, what is the best way to walk.

i say let him be, as long as his actions dont cross the borders of personal freedom and/or the law.

[psychokind]

You can be in the most broken home, and turn out to be the sweetest person in the world. Weaker people resort to turning into a-holes, it's the stronger that can endure and persevere.

you describe "resilient" children out of poor families (the german word is resilient, which has a slightly different meaning in english), and only 1/3 of them are, boys less than girls. for abusive families the resilient birth rate is only at about 1/200, so pretty rare...

I think it's logic for him to turn out that way. after puberty and early adulthood it's pretty hard to change character, be it from good to bad or vice versa.

is this an excuse not to hate him? I'd say no. I can hate everybody I want for what he does, as long as it's not compliant to me. there's no such thing as an excuse that could change that opinion.

but this is sth everybody has to decide for himself. the jurisdiction however does think of excuses in the past (especially education) of people, so be prepared.

[EverPhoenix]

i have two sides to this argument:

firstly, if he acts the way he does, for those not immediately concerned with his past, he is an a-hole. they won't think that he might have had a really shit childhood/early/later life, they'll just see an abusive prick. they will hate him. they will have justification for it.

on the flipside, it isnt entirely his fault that he acts like this. sure, they are his actions and his alone, but he did not have a hand in the way he was raised. if life passes you a hand like that, i would be rather surprised if he didn't end up abusive - he grew up with people tormenting him for fun, and perhaps saw it at first as the right way to exist, either victor or victim. and although in later years, where common sense is hopefully more present, he might have changed - as psychokind said, it is very hard to change one's character.

i would also like to add that this stuff about perseverance and enduring hardship - i believe it to be an idealist's dream. life will not be quite as friendly to you. sure, it'll teach you to treasure everything you have. it'll teach you to fight for it and grab on with all your might. what it wont teach is undying kindness and empathy - if youve suffered at the hands of every man, woman and their dog, and still come out of that entirely kind-hearted, then you are in line to be the next gandhi. (i dont mean any disrespect, just using an extreme case to show my argument)

[Miss Prime Blue]

I'd say he's a narcissistic douche who needs to make others feel lower to satisfy his own need for dominance over pain.

Hope she leaves him, these types are extremely toxic. Easier said than done, though.

So, my question is: does his unfortunate past rationalize his actions at all now? A couple of people I know - even his ex-girlfriend - want to hate him for how horrible he is to everyone, and how awful he was to her. But they can't bring themselves to do it, because he's led such a shitty life. Eye for an eye on a massive scale; everyone was rotten to him all his life, so he's rotten to everyone.

It merely explains the meaning behind his actions, it doesn't excuse them.

Everyone has crappy stuff happen to them in their lives. A lot of people suffer from abuse. This is unfortunate, but doesn't excuse you from hurting others because of it.

[inferiare]

@Miss: She did. Freedan mentioned that in his post.

On topic: no. I do agree with SBiF that people who have childhoods with bad things constantly happening to them don't always turn out like that. However, the percentage of children who have abusive childhoods who turn out abusive themselves is really high. The only real way that they'd turn out different is if the child makes the conscious decision to no be like their abusive parent. This guy's abusive nature probably comes with the want and need to feel loved, even if he has to force it out of someone.

I agree with Miss though: it explains his behaviour, not excuse it. Wit the methods he's tried to better himself and they haven't worked? He needs to continue on. Most people who have psychiatrists need to find the right one. If he wants to actually better himself and be above stalking his poor ex-girlfriend, he's going to have to start looking for the right help.

[Jason Tandro]

I do not suffer the fools who blame their personal problems and past experiences for the manner in which they treat people today. We all have bad times, sure. We all do stupid shit to people we care about, okay.

But the lifestyle these people live of eternally being victims who's actions are excused because of what happened in the past sickens me. There is a time to stop letting your childhood dictate your actions, and that time is 18.

I realize this seems a might hypocritical. Everybody here knows I've done my fair share of really stupid things and treated people really poorly. But that's on me, plain and simple, and my childhood doesn't enter into it.

[tay120n64]

I do not suffer the fools who blame their personal problems and past experiences for the manner in which they treat people today. We all have bad times, sure. We all do stupid shit to people we care about, okay.

But the lifestyle these people live of eternally being victims who's actions are excused because of what happened in the past sickens me. There is a time to stop letting your childhood dictate your actions, and that time is 18.

I realize this seems a might hypocritical. Everybody here knows I've done my fair share of really stupid things and treated people really poorly. But that's on me, plain and simple, and my childhood doesn't enter into it.

As Bowling for Soup puts it:

"We all know about how the guys in the band weren't the popular kids in school; and how you hate your parents 'cause the way you turned out. But in the end, the blame's on you."

Essentially: You have to grow up sometime.

[SoulBlazerFan]

I can't say everyone turns out all right when it comes to this. I like to think of myself as a nice person for the most part... however, I have a hard time maintaining relationships (Even friendships) because I constantly feel like I'm letting everyone I know down, and I'm just afraid that one day I will push them all away, and I'll be left all alone.

I rationalize it back to parents, whom both did things that made me feel that way when I was younger. Abanondement issues, I believe the psychological term is.

I personally have tried to change, it is hard, but it's worth it in the end, because that fear and emptiness can and will be gone.

The truth is, he will only change if he truly wants to. It's just like with any junkie or addict- no matter how much support you have from the people around you, how many times you're pushed into getting help, the only way it will work is if you want it to, and you try your damnedest to succeed.

[Freedan]

But the lifestyle these people live of eternally being victims who's actions are excused because of what happened in the past sickens me. There is a time to stop letting your childhood dictate your actions, and that time is 18.

This does raise a question, though.

Could it not be argued that he is the way he is because he honestly doesn't know any other way to live? It's like someone being in prison for 50 years, then being released. They probably won't be able to adapt, because prison life is all they know.

It's easy enough to say 'get help and change your ways', but is it possible that after living the way he has for so long, he's just not capable of living any other way? Or are people always capable of changing?

Personally, I don't even like the guy, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.