To deport or not to deport

Freedan · Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:45 pm

I just wanted to see what other people thought of this case. Thankfully, it sounds like it may be coming to an end, but it pissed me off every time I heard about it.

Here in Canada, there lives a German man named Helmut Oberlander. He's 85, retired, and moved to this country some time in the '50s or so.

For the last 15 years, the government has been trying to strip him of his citizenship and deport him. The reason? When he immigrated here all those years ago, he allegedly lied about his past service with a Nazi death squad.

Now, here's where things get messy:

There is no evidence that he participated in any actual wrongdoing. From what they can tell, he was 17 at the time, and worked as an interpreter for a group of them. Some people say that association with the Nazis is enough, and he should be deported (and of course, there's heavy pressure from the Jewish community to do so). Others say that since there's no proof that he did anything wrong, he should be left alone (and that lying to immigrate - in this case, a lie by omission, since he claims he was never asked about his association with the Nazis - is not grounds for deportation).

Twice, he's had his citizenship taken away and faced deportation (a judge ruled that he should lose his citizenship because he 'probably' worked with the Nazis). Twice, he's successfully argued that the government's claims don't hold up.

So what do you folks think? Is lying to immigrate, even by omission, grounds for deportation? Is any link to the Nazis reason enough to face punishment so many years later?

Personally, I think the government should back off and let the man live out his days here. By their own admission, there's no proof that he actually committed any crimes, and we're supposed to operate under that 'innocent until proven guilty' mantra. There's also no way to know if he ever was asked about his association with the Nazis, since he moved here over 50 years ago.

And considering we're talking about the Nazis, I imagine he interpreted for them through coercion. Not "I want to work for the Nazis".... more like them saying "work for us, or we'll kill your family while you watch, then kill you."

What sayest thou?

Jason Tandro · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:11 pm Post subject:

Frankly, I don't think a persons backstory is the governments business, but it might be handy in this country to know if such and such a person used to... oh I don't know, be involved in a smuggling ring.

Affiliation with the Nazis is hardly grounds for deportation. All I care about is if somebody is going to do something to my country.

I'm all for deporting the people who come to my country illegally, especially if they commit a crime. But my government refuses to crack down on this, saying it's inhumane. Bullshit.

If you wanna live in this country, come here legally and be an honest contributor. Don't exploit our welfare system and commit crimes. Pretty fair request.

EverPhoenix · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject:

i think he should be allowed to stay. since when is former affiliation with nazis a crime? if he doesnt try to enforce their beliefs, why should they bother him?

and technically, a 'lie by omission' is only a lie if they asked him to specify all details. if, due to their own oversight, they neglected to ask him that particular detail, it isnt his fault, it is the fault of the interrogators.

tay120n64 · Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:49 am Post subject:

Ummmm...

I think its been 50 years, and Nazi crimes are only relevant as pieces of historical significance? Plus, there's no proof.

chicken · Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:28 am Post subject:

pft. leave the guy alone. hell, he is like 85! what possible threat could he be? apart from that, the nazi-stuff dates back to like 70 years. sure, there may be some wannabe-badasses around who think being nazi makes them real tough. but hey: the holocaust was a mistake, a terrible mistake. 100% (the mentioned wannabes excluded) of the worlds population agree to that. so... why being so anxious about them?

if the law cannot touch him because they dont have any real proof, get the fuck off him. whats with that bullshit anyway? i think he's repenting the stuff that was going on back then (no matter if he had an active part in that or not) more than enough. i dont think you'll ever forget a genocide.

Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:10 am Post subject:

I think the general consensus is LEAVE THE POOR GUY ALONE. He may have once been in/helped the Nazi party, but I agree with you, dark knight, that it may have been "You're going to help us or else" since they were keen on doing that back then. :/ They should leave the guy alone and just let him live out his days. If they want to ship his body back to Germany when he dies, fine, but let him live in the place he's called home for 50+ years.

psychokind · Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:07 am Post subject:

chicken wrote: but hey: the holocaust was a mistake, a terrible mistake. 100% (the mentioned wannabes excluded) of the worlds population agree to that. so... why being so anxious about them?

not quite right, a huge amount of people in arabia think the holocaust was a good thing to do.

ontopic: difficult, I don't know the actual legal situation of canada...

three possibilities:

a) there's a law saying "deport (ex-)nazis". if they prove he was a nazi, they should deport him.

b) there's a law saying "deport (ex-)nazis". they can't prove it, they shall not deport him.

c) there's no law saying "deport (ex-)nazis." but there's a law "you may deport people who comitted crimes". if they prove his crimes, they may deport him. since this possibility is most likely, they shouldn't deport him, as long as there's no proof. and even if there is, it should be possible to assess: deporting a 85 year old man is disproportionate.