The Second Ammendment

Jason Tandro · Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:31 pm

Okay, this might spark some heated debate, but for the Americans here, what do you think of the second ammendment (the right to keep and bear arms)? For non-Americans, what are your countries gun control laws and what is your personal opinion.

My personal opinion is that everybody should be allowed to carry firearms for personal protection. I don't know that I'd let felons carry guns but I want to have to right to protect myself from criminals and (god forbid) a corrupt government.

And don't throw that Columbine and VT at me, because my answer is that if everybody else had guns then the majority on non-insane students would have been able to shoot him down before he killed all the people he did.

My idea of gun control is holding it with both hands. And rather than throw platitudes at you, I'll leave the floor open for debate.

tay120n64 · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject:

Aren't there already like, processes and tests that people have to pass to carry a gun? If anything, maybe make those stricter, but I believe that if someone is proven to be sane and responsible, then he has every right to posses a weapon.

thefencemaster · Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:02 pm Post subject:

I'm going to go with the Family Guy joke on the concept. Everyone should have the right to a pair of bear arms on their wall.

But now to be serious. I have to agree with Jason on this matter. Everyone should be allowed to carry a gun, and in my opinion should be encouraged to carry a gun. Although in reality this would probably be unethical and would not work, I think it would be very interesting if there were some way to do an experiment on a smaller scale to see how well it worked out.

chicken · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:07 am Post subject:

nobody should carry a gun.

you cannot fight fire with fire. if an insane student gets shot down by another sane student... well, that guy definitelly needs some therapy afterwards...

i guess its harder to talk about pulling the trigger than actually doing it. yea i know, stress situation and safing lives, etc. still, this sure wouldnt be easy.

here in austria, nobody carrys weapons in any way (no handguns, no knives, ...) violence is mostly restricted to fistfights (which happens quite a lot if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, but thats another story... lets put it like this: alcohol + young people with a huge ego + night = brawl)

actually, if i image that everyone would carry a handgun around here, there might be shoot-outs that could have been settled without wounded, dead and bullets.

Flamez · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:42 am Post subject:

Guns should be banned, out right. plane and simple.

psychokind · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:52 am Post subject:

I mostly agree with chicken. in germany nobody may carry weapons in public except for soldiers, police etc. some people are allowed to own weapons (hunters, people who are in registered associations related to weapons) at home and use them in their special subject.
I think large caliber are almost completely restricted to governmental forces.

to let everybody carry a weapon is not a good idea. america's casualities from weapons exceed the average of a western country by 100 times (thats about 120 people here and over 11000 in america p.a.).

since I think this has to do with the fact that the education in the usa is very low in average only intelligent and wealthy people should be allowed to carry weapons, and only if necessary. means: living or working in ghettos.

Muerte · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:01 am Post subject:

I think USA is the only country where people actually agree with everybody being able to carry guns.

But since it's more of a discussion, I think the problem with carrying guns is things will escalate because of it. Like ... if normal people carry handguns, then the people who they're trying to protect themselves from carry automatic weapons or whatever.

There's no justifiable reason for every person to be able to carry a gun other than because it's the second ammendment, which isn't a good reason at all. I get how it's thought of as a right and all that, but how is it anybody's right to carry a weapon that only serves to kill other people, completely taking away all their rights at the simple applied pressure of a trigger?

Weapons, as far as I know, are banned here in Australia too. If everyone carried around weapons then I'm sure there would a lot more fatalities resulting from the drunken brawls we get here.

gavdaman88 · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:35 am Post subject:

The problem is now that theyre legal they cant ban them. Im sure the government would probably want to, but they cant take the risk of most people hiding or keeping their guns out of fear of the nuts out there or love for their rifle etc.

As someone said you cant fight fire with fire, but you cant put out this fire I think.

EverPhoenix · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:32 am Post subject:

guns being as easily accessible as they are in the USA, i think they should be legal. If everyone has access to a firearm, someone who means to do harm will not have an upper hand on those he intends to harm. The catch here is that guns will be more likely used over petty things, resulting in a lot more fatalities.

it really is a double-edged sword - if they are banned, someone who does manage to get their hands on one will be a lot more of a threat. if they are legal, the chances of someone shooting you over a minor disagreement escalates dramatically.

psychokind · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:38 am Post subject:

EverPhoenix wrote:
it really is a double-edged sword - if they are banned, someone who does manage to get their hands on one will be a lot more of a threat. if they are legal, the chances of someone shooting you over a minor disagreement escalates dramatically.

that's right, but the first example results in a lot less casualities as you can see in europe.

Azure Phoenix · Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject:

having guns everywhere is far from being a bad idea let alone a good one, have you seen what people are like these days, if you make guns legal i can safely say that teenagers will be shooting each other quickly, and for stupid reasons, it's bad enough with knife crime but if you make guns legal you're practically asking for a HUGE rise in crime, i think they should be banned but i also agree with the fact that america can't go back now as people would not accept their guns being taken from them

there's nothing really that can change this situation without making it worse, at least in my eyes, others may see it differently

Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject:

As someone who respects my right to carry and bear arms, I'm going to say that gun control or banning them outright = stupid. Taking away weapons from people who don't use them except for self defense is just... well, it's stupid, for lack of a better word. Yes, people kill people with guns, but people also kill people with knives, their fists, etc. If you take that away from people who would use it to protect their families from home intruders, they're just going to get murdered because the criminals ALWAYS find a way to get their hands on a firearm, no matter if they're outlawed or banned.

Flamez · Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:44 am Post subject:

rainichan wrote:As someone who respects my right to carry and bear arms, I'm going to say that gun control or banning them outright = stupid. Taking away weapons from people who don't use them except for self defense is just... well, it's stupid, for lack of a better word. Yes, people kill people with guns, but people also kill people with knives, their fists, etc. If you take that away from people who would use it to protect their families from home intruders, they're just going to get murdered because the criminals ALWAYS find a way to get their hands on a firearm, no matter if they're outlawed or banned.

They will find ways to get their hands on a firearm, but it will be a dam lot harder then walking into a store. Just the fact that its harder to get one will deter alot of people from even trying, and I dont know how you can feel safe knowing that any barley trained idiot can go get one.

People dont break into your house just to murder you (unless your in a gang or somehow got onto someones hit list), and if they do there probably going to have killed you long before you have a chance to get your said gun anyway.

psychokind · Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:57 am Post subject:

rainichan wrote:As someone who respects my right to carry and bear arms, I'm going to say that gun control or banning them outright = stupid. Taking away weapons from people who don't use them except for self defense is just... well, it's stupid, for lack of a better word. Yes, people kill people with guns, but people also kill people with knives, their fists, etc. If you take that away from people who would use it to protect their families from home intruders, they're just going to get murdered because the criminals ALWAYS find a way to get their hands on a firearm, no matter if they're outlawed or banned.

but without firearms you could reduce your killed people from over 11.000 to maybe 500^^

chicken · Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:26 am Post subject:

think about it: if the people in a certain country (lets take austria or germany

) dont know shit about guns because they are not used to carry them, its a lot harder to overcome your inhibition to murder one.

even if you got a burglar breaking into your house, nobody needs to die or be deadly wounded or anything... you scare the shit out of these guys by just being present or yelling at them.

hardly anyone carries a weapon of any kind because those people come for the money or the loot, not to kill anyone. they arent "tough" enough to do it. thats because they dont have so much experience with weapons because they arent legal